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President Trump (Part 2)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

January 6 ought to be quite interesting.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now it is just a whole lot of tough talk. No one is actually going to do anything.

Ms. Lebwohl had a most-likely-fake post come across social media claiming that the Mayor of Washington, D. C. ordered gas stations and hotels to close to discourage people from showing up to protest. I immediately called "fake" becsue a Mayor cannot issue such an order and any attempt to do so would be immediately struck down by a Federal judge.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus Tullius Cicero wrote:
January 6 ought to be quite interesting.


A few senators will object to the electoral college results, and it will get instantly shot down. It will just be another embarrassment for the GOP, which is why GOP leaders are telling them not to do anything.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So many people are stupid and ignorant. It's disheartening.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe how many people think that anyone other than Joe Biden is going to be the next POTUS.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the GOP controlled the House as well as the Senate, they would vote to overturn the election results and install Trump for a second term by fiat.

Stop saying it's a joke.

Stop saying it won't work.

This is an existential crisis for American democracy.

The GOP has announced that they would subvert the election if they could, and although they can't this time, they would.

Not a fringe group. Not extremists. The core of the GOP.

They don't have the votes this time, but the operative words here are "this time". This will be an ongoing danger every four years. (Consider the fact that 70% of Americans would need to vote for a Democratic Senator for the Dems to control the Senate!)

So to anyone continuing to downplay, de-emphasize, and/or direct our attention elsewhere: we all see how you're trying to misdirect us, in preparation for that next time. Serve the tyrants. Serve them.

Quote:
Ted Cruz is spearheading a new GOP effort to overturn the 2020 election

At least 12 Republican senators will object to certifying the results of the 2020 election.

On Saturday, 11 current and incoming Republican senators announced in a joint statement that they would object to the congressional certification of President-elect Joe Biden's Electoral College victory next week in a futile effort to hand outgoing President Donald Trump an unelected second term in office.

[...] In their plans to object to the certification, the 11 lawmakers join Missouri Sen. Josh Hawley, who announced his own plan to object last week, and a sizable majority of the House Republican Conference, led by Trump devotees like Rep. Louie Gohmert, who have said they will do the same.
[link]

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering that you and your party supported overturning the results of the 2016 election - up to, and including impeaching the guy - it's hard to take your protestations seriously.

You reap what you sow, and the Democrats are now getting the same as they gave.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I don't doubt that one bit. Although I still like to think that a sizable portion of the GOP would oppose anything like that.

With that said...

The Supreme Court had opportunities to essentially force states to pick GOP electors, but they declined to do that. With the Electoral College voting for President (as enshrined by the Constitution), I doubt every Republican would have the balls to overturn that. The EC has the authority to elect the President, and you can't really argue against that. It would have a chilling effect on Republican-led efforts to usurp power. It would be too obvious.

No, I think the greatest threat is just from Republicans creating bullshit rules in red states designed to favor Republican votes (either through redistricting, purging voter rolls of people in predominately Democrat-leaning areas, putting up fake ballot boxes, etc.).

Any solution such as a non-partisan Federal electoral commission being created in order to provide a standardized system in every state (like you see in Canada), automatic voter registration, etc., would simply be opposed by Republicans because they would rather use corruption in order to manipulate election outcomes or generate baseless conspiracy theories every time an election does not go their way.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+


The Washington Post @washingtonpost | Twitter



Quote:
Opinion by Ashton Carter, Dick Cheney, William Cohen, Mark Esper, Robert Gates, Chuck Hagel, James Mattis, Leon Panetta, William Perry and Donald Rumsfeld.


[…]

As senior Defense Department leaders have noted, “there’s no role for the U.S. military in determining the outcome of a U.S. election.” Efforts to involve the U.S. armed forces in resolving election disputes would take us into dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory. Civilian and military officials who direct or carry out such measures would be accountable, including potentially facing criminal penalties, for the grave consequences of their actions on our republic.

Transitions, which all of us have experienced, are a crucial part of the successful transfer of power. They often occur at times of international uncertainty about U.S. national security policy and posture. They can be a moment when the nation is vulnerable to actions by adversaries seeking to take advantage of the situation.

Given these factors, particularly at a time when U.S. forces are engaged in active operations around the world, it is all the more imperative that the transition at the Defense Department be carried out fully, cooperatively and transparently. Acting defense secretary Christopher C. Miller and his subordinates — political appointees, officers and civil servants — are each bound by oath, law and precedent to facilitate the entry into office of the incoming administration, and to do so wholeheartedly. They must also refrain from any political actions that undermine the results of the election or hinder the success of the new team.

[…]



--> --> All 10 living former defense secretaries: Involving the military in election disputes would cross into dangerous territory [Opinion]
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ur-Nanothnir wrote:
. . . Or generate baseless conspiracy theories every time an election does not go their way.


You mean like Russiagate?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
ur-Nanothnir wrote:
. . . Or generate baseless conspiracy theories every time an election does not go their way.


You mean like Russiagate?
And the pee tape. And Ukraine. And grabbing pussies. And nazis are fine people. And Stormy Daniels. And emoluments. And the list goes on.

Sorry Democrats, you've set the bar. This is how we treat presidents from the opposite party now. You made your bed, enjoy laying in it. Remember Biden's treatment of Robert Bork and Clarence Thomas? The chickens are coming home to roost, and he'll get no quarter.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need to divorce the democrats. Let them ruin their own country.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+


Aaron Rupar @atrupar | Twitter [Audio: 4.5 min]

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgt.null wrote:
We need to divorce the democrats. Let them ruin their own country.

Sarge, did you bother to read what I wrote on the previous page about this cavalier use of the term "divorce" and what this rhetoric really means? Hashi brushed it off, claiming that he was using "divorce" as a shorthand, but couldn't trouble himself to offer a substantive response.

You, as a Catholic, surely cannot be supporting the concept of divorce. Wink

What you both are missing is that it isn't "Let them ruin their own country"; this is One Nation Indivisible, certainly not divisible on the lines y'all seem to be contemplating.

I have these same disagreements with folks like Lord Zombiac who take an extreme left view as I have with you and your right-leaning cohort. Polarized times make it hard to be a rational moderate...but faced with two extremes who seem to want to burn it all down, all I can do is keep pointing out the logical conclusions of where y'all persist in wrongheadedly going.

You can no more succeed in what you apparently want to do than Solomon could divide the baby between two competing mothers. If you love this country as you claim (rather than your insular preconceptions) let it continue to grow up, rather than kill it out of spite.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't both love the country and also want to end it by splitting it into two new ones - the latter just means that you love your own 'bit' of it and disdain it's connection to the other.

But as SD says, surely these are political differences that are manifest across the whole US (though certainly a regional element exists) - but to try to separate on this basis would be as futile as trying to separate the UK along Tory and Labour lines .......or as destructive as the botched separation of India and Pakistan when the British finally ended their shameful imperialist dictatorship of the subcontinent?

No - what you guys need is electoral reform...... and fast!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still ignoring the fact that 70% of the country's GDP is associated with all of the counties that voted Biden.

Pray tell, how exactly do you envision this "conservative paradise" of yours? It seems that it would be a poor nation considering the fact that red counties are only 30% of the GDP.

In this hypothetical scenario, citizens of this new conservative nation would be even poorer than they are now because conservatives will cut all social spending and abrogate all labor laws.

Democrat policies are closer in line with that of European countries, which tend to be fairly prosperous nations.

Which countries are Republican policies closer to? Maybe Pakistan, considering the Evangelical influence in GOP politics. Not exactly what I would call a prosperous nation... Maybe Russia because of Russia's hatred of "liberalism." Still not a particularly flattering comparison due to Russia's pariah status and long history of human rights abuses.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happens to the Democrats currently living in what would become the Republican States of America, and the Republicans currently living in what would become the Democratic States of America? Millions of people have to move in order to live under the rules they want. Any who can't or won't would be in a very uncomfortable, and I would bet dangerous, position.

What happens to current or future children in either new nation who want the other nation's way of life?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or, you know, the people who would just stay behind in order to sabotage/spy on the enemy country.

Anyone advocating for an "American divorce" over politics knows full well that such a thing cannot be done peacefully. People on both sides are too distributed throughout the country. You could have a mass migration like you saw in the partition of India (which was a huge disaster by the way, not something you would want to repeat). However, violence and even genocide is inevitable.

It's like the white nationalist call for a "whites only" country to be created within American territory. They know that not every non-white person will be willing to leave, so ethnic cleansing is an inevitable outcome.

With something like what Sarge and Hashi are proposing, you would have liberals executed/beaten/raped within red states that secede from the country.

You wonder why wayfriend has made comments about extremist rhetoric in the Tank. Well, this is what he's talking about.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rock and a hard place, I say.

This is the inevitably logical conclusion arising from the narratives of extreme polarisation that have been propagated so fervently. Or to put it another way, if you keep loading people up only at the extreme ends of the see-saw, eventually it'll snap in the middle at the fulcrum point.

And Biden now saying he's going to be a president for unity and the healing of divisions? (Just a teeny tad different from his "all Pub supporters are the Forces of Evil" speech of six or so months ago, dontcha think?)

Don't make me laugh - not a snowball's hope in Hell by now. And that's at the very least halfway down to the Dems themselves.

As the man said, you reap what you sow... and I'm not at all sure it's going to be a positive harvest in any way whatsoever. It could well turn out to be that sure, the Dems won the election but in so doing, they helped seriously fuck up the nation... even more than it was in the first place.

"One nation indivisible", SD? Ideologically speaking at least, that horse bolted a while back and it's now just a nostalgic memory of more peaceable times gone by. Moderates are now the exception, rather than the rule.

E pluribus duo, sadly methinks.
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