Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The Redemption of Roger Covenant
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Entire Chronicles
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
hurtloam
Stonedownor

Male
Joined: 07 Jan 2014
Posts: 45

Thanks: 4
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts


383 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

samrw3 wrote:

Perhaps when Jeremiah sees Roger break free of the Despisers control is when Jeremiah realizes that he Jeremiah can break free of the ravers hold and come in to help save the day so Lord Foul cannot escape. I just can't for the life of me remember if Jeremiah saw Roger perform that act of mercy - so that is why I say that theory could be nonsense. (it may be nonsense anyways - lol but if he did see the act it at least has a chance of being ok theory]

Anyways...thoughts?


Sorry to burst your bubble -- Jeremiah didn't see any of what was going on in Kiril Threndor while he was dealing with moksha. He turned the tables on the Raver himself using the abilities he had gained from hiding from the croyel and from Kastenessen breaking him into pieces. He put oneself up front to talk to moksha and kept another part hidden waiting for the right moment to seize control. When he finally entered Kiril Threndor, Roger was dust, and Jeremiah was fully himself.

Althoooough, by that point time was starting to crumble, so maybe the sequence could have been getting mixed up such that Jeremiah WOULD have seen Roger ...
_________________
Joy is in the ears that hear.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
samrw3
The Gap Into Spam


Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 1464

Thanks: 0
Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts


2892 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has been bugging me for a long time. (thanks Wayfriend Very Happy)

I have been very slowly re-reading the third Chronicles. I finally re-read the final confrontation chapter.

Here Covenant is torn because Roger is possessed by Foul.

We learn many things in ths chapter. I am not sure any of this resolves your questions Very Happy But I still think they are illuminating.

1. After Rogers act of mercy Covenant "ran at Roger gained the dais...one swift stroke severed Kastenessen's hand.". Covenant gave his son a chance to be his self again.

2. After Stave recounts what he knows about Linden and Jeremiah he thinks "Roger deserved a better father" To me this is important - as fathers we often realize we could have been better. It was a moment of self reflection that he needed to become a better father for Roger. This has always been one of Lord Fouls mistakes. Foul forgets passion is a double edged sword. Yes Covenant did not want to strike possessed Roger. But Possesed Roger helped Covenant ignite more passion and desire to become better.

3. Roger strikes a krill driven blow against the Despiser. Here we see Roger take his stand against Despiser. Covenant had given his son a chance and Roger finally took his stand against Despiser.

4. Once Roger is dead Covenant feels more impowered to be free with the use of white gold "I Am done with restraint. He hit Lord Foul with fire as fierce as a bayamo" ...."But Covenant withstood the blast. Wild magic withstood it. He had surrendered once. Never again."

I am not positive that Rgoer gave Covenant anything directly to allow him to see the necessity of taking Despiser into himself. But I do agree Roger is still a relevant sotry arc and necessary. 1. Covenant gives his son a chance to be himself again. 2, Covenant realizes he needs to be better and that is more emphasized when viewed through lens that he should have better father 3. Covenant gets to see his son take a direct blow to the Despiser. 4. Seeing his son dead I feel was a neccesary catalyst for unleashing all the white gold fury within himself to make blows against Despiser to delay him and his escape.

Anyways thats what I got for now Smile
_________________
Not every person is going to understand you and that's okay. They have a right to their opinion and you have every right to ignore it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
wayfriend
whilom witling

Male
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 20299

Thanks: 11
Thanked 247 Times in 226 Posts

Location: In reality once again
49629 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
3 Member of Linden's Army


PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Appreciated, samrw3. This is nothing if not a difficult chapter to unravel. We expect things to finally fit together at the end.

Roger's final blow against Foul ... there're too many possible motives here to make a clean take on it. Spite? Revenge? Heroism? If we knew more, we could see where to plot this on his trajectory to redemption.
_________________
* I occasionally post things on KevinsWatch because I am a fan of Stephen R. Donaldson; this should not be considered as condonation of the white nationalist propaganda which is posted far too frequently on this website.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
samrw3
The Gap Into Spam


Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 1464

Thanks: 0
Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts


2892 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it is true that we do not know why Roger chose to make a blow against Foul.

However I argue that even if it was done for the wrong reason it still ended up with a good outcomes. It delayed Lord Foul - which was necessary at this point. It also gave Covenant more passion to fuel his inner white gold fury to cause more delays.

Also it is important that he chose his final act to be against Foul. He could have tried to make a run at his dad hoping to gain mercy from Foul. He could have searched out Jeremiah and tried to distract/injure - who knows what? . He could have tossed Foul the krill.

But the most important part to me in this chapter is Covenant allowed Roger to be freed from possesion
_________________
Not every person is going to understand you and that's okay. They have a right to their opinion and you have every right to ignore it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Entire Chronicles All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch