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Gadget nee Jemcheeta
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 Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:29 pm Post subject: Linden Avery is fine you monsters |
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Hey can someone point me to the threads where I can read all the slander and lies thrown about to attack my main chicken Linden? I want to make sure I'm only rehashing played out arguments but can't find them hehehe
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Savor Dam
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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This is the main THOOLAH thread.
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Have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and to try to love the questions themselves as if they were locked rooms or books written in a very foreign language. Don't search for the answers, which could not be given to you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer.
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sgt.null
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Hile Troy is the most abused character in all the Land. Hile Troy was right. His say would have worked if not for the need to make Covenant the protagonist of his own books. |
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Horrim Carabal
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I've always liked Linden. She's basically the main character from The Wounded Land on. |
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DrPaul
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| If Covenant and Linden weren't damaged and deeply flawed people the meaning, beauty and truth of the Chronicles would be incondignly diminished. |
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Fist and Faith
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Absolutely
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aTOMiC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Horrim Carabal wrote: | | I've always liked Linden. She's basically the main character from The Wounded Land on. |
And I would have been fine with that had the second and last series been named "The Chronicles of Linden Avery"
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Fist and Faith
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| aTOMiC wrote: | | And I would have been fine with that had the second and last series been named "The Chronicles of Linden Avery" |
That would have been a good idea, imo. She is clearly more important to SRD than Covenant is. Which is fine. He can create any story he wants.
What she did at the end of WGW
Spoiler: | throwing off a Raver's possession, then healing Pitchwife and the Land |
is as powerful, moving, and well-written as anything I've ever read. All we read of her before that, annoying as it may be at the time, was what made her capable of all that. It's indispensable.
I'm not as happy with her in the first two books of the Last, for reasons that, obviously, can't be discussed in this forum. And they aren't important anyway. She also did amazing things in those two books. She's not the reason I just can't bring myself to finish the series. But I did love some aspects of what I read, and have heard of how some of that continues, as well as other things, that I would like to know about. So I'll probably finish it some day, even though I'll have to pretend some things don't happen in order to get through it.
Oh! Almost forgot!
LONG LIVE THOOLAH!!!
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Wosbald
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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+JMJ+
| Fist and Faith wrote: | […]
… I just can't bring myself to finish the series … [though] I'll probably finish it some day …
[…] |
Srsly???
The Last Chrons are the Best Chrons, IMNSHO.
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Fist and Faith
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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A couple things ruin it for me. And I've heard about other things I'm not going to happy with. But I've heard of things about some of the characters that I will enjoy.
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aTOMiC
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Fist and Faith wrote: | | A couple things ruin it for me. And I've heard about other things I'm not going to happy with. But I've heard of things about some of the characters that I will enjoy. |
I'm in the same boat. I managed to get through 3/4 of the last book and ran out of interest. The only way I think I can finish the series is start again from the beginning and power through.
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wayfriend
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Horrim Carabal wrote: | | She's basically the main character from The Wounded Land on. |
As I see it, Linden wouldn't have done much without the example and the guidance and the love of Thomas Covenant. He is present in everything she became; she's his greatest achievement. And so have no objections to the title.
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aTOMiC
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| wayfriend wrote: | | Horrim Carabal wrote: | | She's basically the main character from The Wounded Land on. |
As I see it, Linden wouldn't have done much without the example and the guidance and the love of Thomas Covenant. He is present in everything she became; she's his greatest achievement. And so have no objections to the title. |
Would it have been so terrible to have been honest with the title?
I still would have purchased the books. In fact I would have been fine with leaving Covenant behind in the real world altogether and let Linden discover the Land on her own. Through her eyes we would have become reacquainted with the world established in the first trilogy without the distraction of having our original hero made irrelevant in his own story. There was no need to crush Covenant to make Linden more important. She would have made her way through the story on her own terms and would have become just as legendary. IMHO Admittedly the overall story would have been quite different but probably more enjoyable for many of us.
But it is what it is. ,😎👍
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wayfriend
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah.
Sadly (I guess) Donaldson doesn't tell the same story again.
| Stephen R Donaldson wrote: | The two stories together are a kind of moral hierarchy: the first one is relatively simple concerned with muscle; the second is a test of sacrifice in relationships - Covenant can't save The Land alone in The Second Chronicles, and neither can Linden Avery. It takes what they can both give, and what they can both give up, to save The Land.
-- INTERVIEW: October 1991 |
The second Cs are about two people saving the land together because alone they cannot save it. All the dynamics that go with such interdependency makes it a completely different story.
Covenant finds a woman who he can love. But first he has to save her from her demons. At the same time that he needs her to keep him alive. Then he realizes that he needs to die. Can she be healed in time to save the Land after he is gone? Can he give up his love on a long-shot chance?
Point is: there's plenty of Covenant. The most heart-wrenching parts, they are about Covenant. Linden is who she is because it completes Covenant. Linden is who she is because it reveals Covenant.
Yes, there is a second protagonist, and a second POV, and if that doesn't appeal, who can say you're wrong?
But there is no doubt in my mind that it's about Covenant, cover to cover.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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WF, there's no arguing with the intent of the author.
I happen to view the story as a whole with 3 parts.
Part One
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant
Part Two
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant and Linden Avery
Part 3
The Chronicles of Linden Avery and Thomas Covenant ( especially The Runes of the Earth for which Covenant is essentially absent from the book)
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SoulBiter
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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The Second Chronicles stands out for me BECAUSE of TC. Could the story have been completed without him? Sure, a pretty big re-write and we get there.
However the 2nd Chronicles isn't as poignant without TC and it hinges on, "How do you hurt someone who has lost everything? You give him back something broken." As I read it and saw TC react to the changes to the Land, I reacted with him. It started with TC being incredulous that Earth power was forgotten. That hurtloam was no longer known. Those and many more kept me enraptured in the story on an emotional level. I think we miss most of that with Linden without TC. But we also miss them falling in love and finding that they needed each other.
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