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Rebooting the Gun Control Discussion
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wosbald wrote:
+JMJ+

SoulBiter wrote:
[…]

But keep tilting at windmills rather than go after the actual problem. …


The "actual problem" is the mentality that rejects all firearm restriction — no matter how modest or reasonable — as being an infringement of some fundamental, nonnegotiable, absolute Right.




The left wants confiscation. Why should we on the right agree to that?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, Sarge, I'd agree that confiscation would be excessive. Let's dispense with that extreme example.

At the same time, let's discount as an overstatement Wos's "The 'actual problem' is the mentality that rejects all firearm restriction — no matter how modest or reasonable — as being an infringement of some fundamental, nonnegotiable, absolute Right."

You are recognized as both a voice from the Right and a knowledgeable individual with professional and personal experience with a wide range of firearms -- a bit of a collector, even. What will you agree to as a modest and reasonable revision of firearm regulations?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

None. There are already hundreds of restrictions on the books regarding firearms. Why should the people expect or accept more? And in these latest cases, what specific law(s), other than a complete ban would have prevented them?

What further restrictions will you agree to when it comes to limiting your 1st, 4th, and 5th Amendment rights?

Because the "reasonable, common-sense" solutions aren't.

In theory, universal background checks sound great. And I think that the vast majority of people would agree to them, as long as there was an exemption for in-family transfers. But this wouldn't have prevented a single shooting, so it's a solution in search of a problem. Not to mention that in order for this to have any effect, the (mostly Blue) states who don't/won't participate with the NICS system would have to be compelled to do so. Good luck with that.

The 9th Circuit has already ruled that raising the age to purchase some rifles to 21 doesn't pass constitutional muster. SCOTUS will uphold this, should the case get there.

Red Flag laws also don't pass constitutional muster, as they constitute a taking without regard to the 4th Amendment.

And all these "solutions" ignore the elephant in the room....We have no public mental health system anymore thanks to the ACLU's well-documented fight to end institutionalization, and the mental health community's toxic reliance on drug therapy.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:
None. There are already hundreds of restrictions on the books regarding firearms. Why should the people expect or accept more? And in these latest cases, what specific law(s), other than a complete ban would have prevented them?

What further restrictions will you agree to when it comes to limiting your 1st, 4th, and 5th Amendment rights?

Because the "reasonable, common-sense" solutions aren't.

In theory, universal background checks sound great. And I think that the vast majority of people would agree to them, as long as there was an exemption for in-family transfers. But this wouldn't have prevented a single shooting, so it's a solution in search of a problem. Not to mention that in order for this to have any effect, the (mostly Blue) states who don't/won't participate with the NICS system would have to be compelled to do so. Good luck with that.

The 9th Circuit has already ruled that raising the age to purchase some rifles to 21 doesn't pass constitutional muster. SCOTUS will uphold this, should the case get there.

Red Flag laws also don't pass constitutional muster, as they constitute a taking without regard to the 4th Amendment.

And all these "solutions" ignore the elephant in the room....We have no public mental health system anymore thanks to the ACLU's well-documented fight to end institutionalization, and the mental health community's toxic reliance on drug therapy.


Spot on and most of these I had just logged in to say. The one that seems easiest for many to go after is that scary looking AR15. But when you look at the statistics of gun violence overall, AR15's make up a VERY VERY small percentage of all shootings. Its a feel-good restriction but at the end of the day will not end gun violence.

Here is a pretty good list of mass shootings and the guns used in those.

Note that most of these do not include an AR15 at all. One of the worst was in 2007 when 32 people were killed in Virginia. The weapons? Walther P22 semi-automatic pistol .22 caliber, and Glock Model 19 semi-automatic pistol 9mm

A .22 caliber pistol and a 9mm pistol. And 32 people were killed. That is why its toothless to say... well if we could just ban these AR15's or other "assault style" weapons then the worst of these shootings would stop. But that isn't true at all, as history has shown.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The SCOTUS just issued its ruling on New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen, 6 - 3 that New York's regulations that made it difficult to obtain a license to carry a concealed handgun were unconstitutionally restrictive, and that it should be easier to obtain such a license.

This is good news. Ideally, it should be no more difficult to obtain a gun license that it is for any other license, whether driver's, hunting/fishing, or marriage.

*************

As noted, there are already plenty of laws on the books regulating guns, what kinds may be bought, and who is not supposed to have any of them. Enforce those laws and leave law-abiding citizens alone.

The bill which would have created the Active Shooter Alert Communications Network did not pass in the House. We don't need a new system for active shooter alerts, just link it in to the Amber Alert system.

According to Senator Mike Lee, they had only a handful of minutes to read the gun control legislation before being asked to vote on it. Democrats like doing this shit so they can sneak crap into a bill then try to shit-talk anyone who doesn't vote for it--"see? Republicans don't want gun control or they would have voted for it". The Senate is merely following Pelosi's philosophy--you have to pass it to find out what is in it.

edit/add: aww....boo hoo hoo--poor little Democrats are shitting bricks after the Court struck down the New York law.

If stupid gun control laws ever get passed at the Federal level, I am telling you all quite plainly right now that I will disobey those unconstitutional laws.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No surprise with the 6-3 split. It's increasingly clear that the GOP Justices practice law, the Dem Justices (particularly Obama's two) practice politics.

Given the DC decision a few years ago, this was a 9-0 slam-dunk for anyone with a basic understanding of the law.

Watch now as New York and the other 5 states make it as difficult as possible via legislation and administrative law for their citizens to obtain permits. Imagine if you will that Red states had done the same regarding gay marriages.

The Left lacks principle, and the reaction to today's decision is a perfect example. Just wait until next week's bombshell (which should be another 9-0 slam-dunk).
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Skyweir wrote:
Rodney King was caught on video being kicked and beaten to death - none of those police officers were investigated.


Skyweir wrote:
So if it were up to us (who couldn't give a fuck about ignorant unvaccinated folk dying in large number) 😉 perhaps that's purely how evolution will sort out intellectually deficient out of the general population.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New York Governor Hochul was quite upset over the decision, claiming that the Court "has stripped away the State of New York's right and responsibility to protect its citizens" and that it is "sending us backwards in our efforts to protect families and prevent gun violence". I am going to let Governor Hochul in on a little secret: you aren't protecting your citizens right now and you aren't preventing any gun violence with the laws and enforcement you have now. You already aren't doing your job; this ruling isn't going to make one godamned bit of difference--the criminals have been shooting people in your cities almost on a daily basis for quite some time now.

If you live in New York--or any State, really--then go buy a gun this weekend.

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Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Zarathustra wrote:
People who collude together don't oppose each other's desires. Trump stood up to Putin. Biden caved.


Mensa and Intertel

Let's go, Brandon
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron Perlman on Twitter wrote:
The latest Supreme Court decision on firearms neglects to say the one thing that they actually meant to say: for whites only.


He has since deleted his tweet....but nothing gets deleted, Ron. *sigh* Ron, you were a good Hellboy and your devotion to Fallout allowed you to be the narrator, but you are just another talking-out-of-your-ass celebrity who clearly doesn't know what you are saying.
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Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Zarathustra wrote:
People who collude together don't oppose each other's desires. Trump stood up to Putin. Biden caved.


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Let's go, Brandon
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

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Bishops ‘heartened’ by proposed gun legislation; ‘troubled’ by Court public-carry decision

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The Rev. Patrick Mahoney calls for an end to gun violence during a demonstration at the U.S. Supreme Court in Washington Nov. 3, 2021. The court heard oral arguments in a challenge to a New York law that requires gun owners to obtain a special license from local authorities to carry firearms outside the home. (Credit: Tom Brenner/Reuters via CNS)


NEW YORK — In a June 23 letter to Congress four U.S. bishop conference chairmen commended the Senate for passing the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act regarding gun violence and urged them to continue to work together to “confront a culture of violence.”

It’s the second letter U.S. bishops have sent to Congress on the topic in 20 days, after mass shootings in Buffalo, New York; Uvalde, Texas; and Tulsa, Oklahoma resulted in 36 deaths, and renewed a national conversation on U.S. gun laws and culture.

Concerning the bipartisan legislation, the letter identified several key provisions that “particularly heartened” the bishops. These include:

  • Strengthening state crisis intervention programs, including extreme risk protection orders programs that prevent a person from purchasing, possessing, or receiving a firearm or ammunition at the petition of a family or household member or a law enforcement officer.
  • Funding to help schools prevent violence including mental health initiatives.
  • Strengthening background checks and closing the ‘boyfriend loophole’ to prevent people convicted of domestic abuse against a dating partner from owning a gun.
  • Enhancing reviews of gun purchasers under the age of 21.
  • Addressing weapons trafficking by prohibiting the purchase of a gun for someone else — known as straw purchasing — as well as firearm trafficking, and providing tools to investigate, prosecute, and educate around these offenses.
  • Investing in children and family mental health services, improving access to mental health care, earlier interventions, and suicide prevention.
  • Clarifying the definition of a firearm dealer to make it more difficult to evade licensing and background check requirements.

[…]

“We are grateful to those senators who led bipartisan negotiations to produce this meaningful legislation … May the Prince of Peace rule your hearts, and ‘may the Lord of peace Himself give you peace at all times in every way (2 Thessalonians 3:16),’” reads the bishop’s letter.

The letter was signed by Archbishop Paul Coakley of Oklahoma City, chair of the USCCB Committee on Domestic Justice and Human Development; Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone of San Francisco, chair of the USCCB Committee on Laity, Marriage, Family Life and Youth; Archbishop William Lori of Baltimore, chair of the USCCB Committee on Pro-Life Activities; and Bishop Thomas Daly of Spokane, chair of the USCCB Committee on Catholic Education.

The four chairmen identified further actions they’d like to see from Congress including a total ban on assault weapons, limitations on civilian access to high-capacity weapons and ammunition magazines, and a more appropriate minimum age for gun ownership.

[…]

New York State Catholic Conference ‘troubled’ by Supreme Court ruling

On the same day the USCCB chairmen sent the letter to Congress, the Supreme Court overturned a century-old New York gun law mandating that residents need to demonstrate a “proper cause,” to get a license to carry a gun outside the home, holding that it violates the Second Amendment.

[…]

In response to the decision, Dennis Poust, executive director of the New York State Catholic Conference, told Crux that the conference is “troubled” by the court’s decision, and called it “regrettable” that the Supreme Court chose to step in and rule on a law that duly elected members of the state legislature have left in place for more than a century.

Poust said the state’s bishops will continue to support efforts by Gov. Kathy Hochul and state lawmakers to pass reasonable gun laws.

“The Bishops of New York State support reasonable gun laws to address street crimes, domestic violence, suicide, and mass shootings,” Poust said. “We are happy to support efforts by the governor and legislature to pass new legislation that will meet constitutional muster with the Supreme Court.”

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While they are patting themselves on the back over passing gun control, what they do not realize is that their laws/regulations will not prevent the next shooting event because they are trying to deal with the effect rather than the cause..
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Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


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People who collude together don't oppose each other's desires. Trump stood up to Putin. Biden caved.


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Let's go, Brandon
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