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Kevin's Dirt Possible spoilers

 
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madship
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:08 am    Post subject: Kevin's Dirt Possible spoilers Reply with quote

I'm about halfway through, just about to start "Hints".

My thoughts at this point, since Fouls states he is not responsible for Kevin's dirt is that the masters are ignorantly responsible for it.

This may be answered in Runes but in case it is not, my reasonig is this. The Haruchai made a vow of service and earthpower bound them them to this vow beynd sleep and death. The people of the land swore the oath of peace after the desecration and earthpower bound them to it by not allowing them to understand or assimilate any lore which would allow them to break their oath.

In a way I believe that earthpower caused the unhomed to become lost. They made a vow to not return home until they had discoverd the entire earth. When they grew hungry for home and broke their vow, earthpower refused to let them retun.

I think the masters in making themselves the guardians of the land and deciding to keep the people of the land ignorant of earthpower have in thier extravagance caused earthpower to create a method of hiding itself fromthe people of the land.

If his is answered in Runes, I'm sure this will be a short thread. If not, let me know what you think. I won't check back until I have completed the book.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you will know for yourself once you finish "Runes" the origin of Kevins Dirt is not explained in that volume. My theory is that it comes from Linden taking the Staff of Law out of the Land a few hundred years after it was created, leaving the Land without the Staff for over three thousand years. I think Foul is able to come back for the exact same reason. But we shall see.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can buy that theory.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, that's so messed up! That means that Linden is also responsible for Anele's distress and insanity (he's wandered around for years looking for something that isn't there because it was taken into the future).

:head reels:
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically, yes. Linden feels so much sadness and pity for Anele, but she's the cause of his current state. Oh, Covenant would have revelled in that one! Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She essentially created another lunatic - like, um, Elena? Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing How convenient. Now if we find out Sunder is still alive and living in Covenant-induced madness, I'll tear my hair out in disbelief Eeek
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Kevin's Dirt Possible spoilers Reply with quote

madship wrote:

My thoughts at this point, since Fouls states he is not responsible for Kevin's dirt is that the masters are ignorantly responsible for it.

That's a very interesting theory, one that hadn't occured to me at all. Thanks for the thought!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see any way Linden could have caused Anele's plight. Even if she hadn't taken the staff, Anele would still be thousands of years in the future, and the Waynhim still would've picked up the staff for safekeeping.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had thought that it was a result of the Staff being latent combined with the lack of lore to understand what was happening and how to stop it; the physical manefestation of the complete neglect of earthpower.

Madship's theory is quite interesting, and possible imo, however.

I don't think that it could be compleatly Linden's fault, seeing as how the Staff would still have missing, damaging Anele, and having affects that profound reaching that far back would surely mean that Linden has no freewill, wouldn't it?

Did anyone else think that "Kevin's Dirt" is just about the worst name in the books? Do I remember correctly that the Masters named it? If so, they really don't have much imagination....
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the Haruchai don't have much of an imagination. They're not known for that.

Back to Anele and the missing staff.

Regardless of Anele getting stuck in the caesure, and regardless of the Waynhim protecting the staff, Linden Spoiler:
went back in time to retrieve the Staff, and brought it forward in time somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,000 years


So Anele's situation and the Waynhim's protection of the staff don't matter. Spoiler:
The very existence of the Staff of Law was what was curing the Sunbane. It's absence bereft the Land of Law, and allowed for all of those other things to happen. There's no question in my mind that Linden's bad decision is what brought the Land to what it is today, perhaps even forcing the Haruchai to do what they did.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About the name Kevin's Dirt...when I read it, the first thing I thought was "Won't anyone give Kevin a break for what he did 10,000 years ago? I know he couldn't have made this 'smog' stuff, so why do they have to attach his name to it?"

Kevin: "I tell ya' I don't get no respect!"

I wouldn't be surprised if SRD decides that everything that happened was Linden's fault; he likes to drive his characters with guilt. Also, we can't forget whatshisname who told her that even though Foul was defeated in the Last Chronicles, by doing it the way they did they caused more harm than if they followed the Elohim plan.
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A Gunslinger
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UrLord wrote:
About the name Kevin's Dirt...when I read it, the first thing I thought was "Won't anyone give Kevin a break for what he did 10,000 years ago? I know he couldn't have made this 'smog' stuff, so why do they have to attach his name to it?"

Kevin: "I tell ya' I don't get no respect!"

I wouldn't be surprised if SRD decides that everything that happened was Linden's fault; he likes to drive his characters with guilt. Also, we can't forget whatshisname who told her that even though Foul was defeated in the Last Chronicles, by doing it the way they did they caused more harm than if they followed the Elohim plan.


I am not sure I buy that. Remember that Foul;s "snares are always beset by more snares. It boots nothing to avoid them". I think the reason Fouls exists is that he was not utterly destroyed. He is a clever one, and unless TC (chaos) and Linden (law) work together to completely undo him both physically and non-corporeally, he'll always come back STRONGER. If they had followed the Elohim advice, Linden would have failed as her propensity toward law and healing would not allow destruction.

Things are different now, however. She is made of sterner stuff and Fould threatens her loves.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm...Chaos and Order.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I didn't say that she did the wrong thing. It may in fact have been the only thing that could have stopped Foul, but according to the Elohim (I think? it may have been Esmer) doing things that way also cost *something* that they didn't elaborate upon.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For myself, I don't understand why no effort was made to find the staff in the present. That would have certainly made more sense. For all Linden knew, she may have found the remains of the rhysh and the staff may have still been there! Obviously, that's not what SRD wanted, and I agree that it will come to light that Kevin's Dirt, and perhaps even the ceasures themselves were aided by the 3000-yr absence of the staff. Interesting conundrum, paradox of time and all that Wink

btw, this is my first post. I've been lurking for a little while, I'm glad I found this place, or I probably wouldn't have even known that the 3rd chronicles existed!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the Watch!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drtyrtbstrd wrote:
For myself, I don't understand why no effort was made to find the staff in the present. That would have certainly made more sense. For all Linden knew, she may have found the remains of the rhysh and the staff may have still been there!

I think she dismissed that idea on the basis that Anele had been searching for it for Creator knows how many years.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

burgs66 wrote:
Hmm...Chaos and Order.


Kind of like Findail and Vain.
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