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Did TC fail the High Wood test at Soaring Woodhelven?
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BraulioB
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2002 5:32 pm    Post subject: Did TC fail the High Wood test at Soaring Woodhelven? Reply with quote

I think he failed the test. When Baradakas tossed the High Wood to TC, TC wasn't ready for it and dropped it because of his half-hand. I can believe that. But after he picked it up, it still wanted to ooze out of his grip. Seems to me that it was rejecting him. He then gripped it in his left hand (the one with his ring) and struck back at Baradakas' arm. But that could have been the ring's power, not the High Wood's.

What do you think?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2002 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO he did not "fail" the test; Earthpower is no match for wild magic; and the power burst when wild magic came into contact with EP.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. The normal rules of the test do no apply to Covenant, IMO. The wild magic could easily override the High Wood, thereby invalidating the test. But I also see Braulio's point about the fact that TC felt he was dropping the wood, even when it was firmly in his grip, suggests that he would have failed the test without the intervention of wild magic.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Indubitally. What they said. Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well at least the Orcrest didn't try to mess with him.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2002 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its another of those great examples of SD teasing us with the quesion of TC's moral worth.. and it worked didnt it ? Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my first post.Nice threads here.
I agree that the normal rules of the test don't apply to Covenant.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2002 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is satheart foamfollower! (too lazy to log on)

I agree. But refresh my memory-- what did it mean if someone droped the wood.
iF it was to decide if he were evil or not, the wood would have droped without the ring.
Remeber the paradox of covenant? He is Good and EVIL
IN THIS CASE, IT WOULD HAVE SLIPPED FROM HIS HAND BECAUSE OF THE EVIL PART,NOT BECAUSE OF HIS RING OR HAND
but if im wrong, nevermind.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2002 3:35 am    Post subject: Re: Did TC fail the High Wood Test Reply with quote

I don't think he failed the test. First he wasn't exactly prepared when the wood was tossed at him, second his half hand played a big part in him dropping the wood. He said the wood felt slick and oozed from his grip, but once he gripped it he held on, Besides I dont think he would have failed the test either way since the Wild Magic Surpassed the High Wood in might. So the test was basically irrelevant.



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2002 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I agree. But refresh my memory-- what did it mean if someone droped the wood.


it served as kind of a test of truth - you know, if she weighs the same as a duck, she will float on water, therefore she's a witch!
erm, no, but if the delinquent cannot catch the High Wood, it means the the lomillialor rejects him, meaning there is some mishonesty or evil around him
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2002 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree w/amanibhavam - white gold cannot be measured in the Land ie. tested. It surpasses earthpower and therefore cannot be tested by earthpower...

just a thought... Confused
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2002 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Help!! Earthblood here. I keep getting logged out when I go to a new discussion thread. I login & get sent to index, choose a discussion & thread & get logged off. Any suggestions? (my last post was on the high wood test disc)
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2002 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seems my 'auto log-out' prob has fixed itself or I have a guardian out there.... if so thank you!!! Started TIW & High Lord Elena just gave TC the krill & he drilled that into the stone table. What was I saying about Wild magic surpassing earthpower? It blows it away! It is interesting how white gold sort of transmutates earthpower.... I guess it goes to the argument of earthpower only really being accesible by NOT holding to the OoP.
Just a tangent... Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2002 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seems my 'auto log-out' prob has fixed itself or I have a guardian out there.... if so thank you!!! Started TIW & High Lord Elena just gave TC the krill & he drilled that into the stone table. What was I saying about Wild magic surpassing earthpower? It blows it away! It is interesting how white gold sort of transmutates earthpower.... I guess it goes to the argument of earthpower only really being accesible by NOT holding to the OoP.
Just a tangent... Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2002 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

now it's relly workin'......
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Test of Truth Reply with quote

Just a thought, but in Daughter of Regals SRD says about a simaler peice of wood "It's nature transended my own. Even with my arms about it it seemed to ooze from me as if it were liquid rather than solid-a scepter composed of a substance I could not comprehend." Perhaps when TC first tried to grasp the wood he couldn't because he wasn't from the Land and so couldn't understand or controll Earthpower. When, however, the Lilanril staff contacted the greater power of TC's ring it discharged power much as the Staff of Law had when Elena tried to use it against TC. Or I could be making no sense.... Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no that makes perfect sense ..

though in the back of my mind I wonder if the reason he 'dropped the lomillialor because he was unworthy ..

ch 9. Jehannum LFB
Quote:
You know of the High Wood, lomillialor-do you not, Atiaran? Baradakas spoke for the first time. 'There is much in it like the orcrest of the rhadhamaerl. It is an offspring of the One Tree, from which the Staff of Law itself was made'

The people of the lillianrill possessed a percipience ..
Quote:
We see much in you, Atiaran Trell-mate' said Llaura her eyes fixed keenly on the Stonedownor, 'much sorrow and much courage. But your companion is closed to us.


to this Atiaran cursed .. 'Melenkurion' .. and beseeched the woodhelvennin to observe TC's hand and ring .. to which the reply was;

Quote:
We have looked - looked and heard. We trust you, Atiaran Trell-Mate. You have spoken a name which no Raver would call upon to save a companion.'

then Baradakas interjects ...

Quote:
Our test is for the man. Reaching behind him, he lifted up a smooth wooden rod three feet long from which all the bark had ben stripped. He held it by the middle gently, reverently. 'This is lomillialor' As he said the name the wood glistened as if its clear grain were moist with dew. ...


Quote:
... What the hell is this? Covenant tried to balance himself for whatever was coming.

... Baradakas swung his rod and lofted it toward the Unbeliever.

He jerked aside and clutched at the lomillialor with his right hand. But he did not have enough fingers to get a quick grip on it; it slipped away from him, dropped to the floor with a wooden click that seemed unnaturally loud in the hush of the chamber.

... The High Wood rejects him. He is a wrong in the Land'.


I think TC the man .. did fail the test here .. remembering that the wood was not just a piece of wood .. he dropped it because it was slippery to him .. metaphysically slippery ..
ch.10 Celbration of Spring, LFB
Quote:
In one fluid motion Baradakas drew a club from his cloak and raised it as he moved toward Covenant.

Covenant reacted instinctively, defensively. ... he .. snatched up the lomillialor rod with his left hand. As Baradakas swung the club at his head, he slashed the Hirebrand's arm with the rod.

In a shower of white sparks, the club sprang into splinters. Baradakas was flung back as if he had been blasted away by an explosion.

.. The rod started to slip from his hand. He gaped at it, thinking, What the hell - ?

But then the mute astonsihment of the Heers, and the Hirebrand's crumpled form, steadied him. Test me? he rasped. Bastards. He took the rod in his right hand, holding it by the middle as Baradakas had done. Its glistneing wood felt slick; it gave him a sensation of slippage, as if it were ooozing from his grasp, thogh the wood did not actually move. As he gripped it, he glared around at the Heers, put all the anger their treatment had spoarked in himn into his gaze, 'Now why dont you tell me one more time about how this thing rejects me.'

Atiaran explained to TC ...
Quote:
In the older age, she said, 'when High Lord Kevin trusted the Grey Slayer, he was given pricelss gifts of orcrest and lomillialor. The tale says that these gifts were soon lost - but while the Grey Slayer possessed them they did not reject him. It is possible for Despite to wear the guise of truth. Perhaps the wild magic surpasses the truth.'
Now that is an interesting assessment of Atiaran's .. perhaps because TC possessed the wild magic the truth could have no hold on him .. could not demand accountability or justice from him. *shrug*
Quote:
The Heer added; That is the tale. But we are only Woodhelvennin - not Lords. Such maters are beyond us. Never in the memory of our people has a test of truth struck down a Hirebrand of the lillianrill. What is the song? - 'he will save or damn the Earth'
.

Quote:
[Covenant] .. did not wait for the Hirebrand to ask; he handed the lomillialor to Baradakas, and was glad to be rid of its disquieting, insecure touch.

You see even though he was able to wield the staff against the Hirebrand .. the wood staff did not sit well with him .. Covenant was a wrong in the Land .. and .. interestingly he also would become a 'right' in the Land.. hence the paradox that Covenant was.

When the Lords at the Keep questioned TC .. he held back much .. mostly anything 'personal' .. as he called it .. regarding Lena .. Triock or Baradakas

.. but later he faltered and exposed his dealings with Baradakas .. which lead the Council to wonder why Baradakas gave TC his staff .. which lead TC to divulging that Baradakas wished to give him the test of truth. The Council were even more concerned by this .. why did they wish to test you Unbeliever?? and not your companion Atiaran Trell-mate?? To which question he refused to answer.

TC was closed to the Lords .. he held much back .. and kept to himself ..

I think if not for the white gold TC would have failed the test of truth .. because he did not believe himself worthy .. he had raped Lena and lied to Triock .. infact he lied to a lot of people when he first arrived in the Land.

He explained why he would not answer their questions more;
Quote:
'Dont you understand? I'm trying to get out of telling you an even bigger lie. If you keep pushing me - we'll all suffer.'

But mainly TC will suffer .. cos he is the one that had to live with his actions .. and to admit them to himself then .. would be akin to admitting to his own lack of sanity .. and surrender to his disease.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And so all we 'newbies' read in stark amazement at the depth of understanding shown by the stalwarts of KW. This is why I am here.
Thanks for the insight Skyweir! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post Skyweir. That is what I was getting at also, but not as eloquently. TC couldn't really feel comfortable with the rod in his hands. It kept wanting to slip out and that's why I feel he failed the test. And only because he was holding the rod with the hand that had the ring was he able to strike back.

But, to contradict myself, Baradakas also held the rod in the middle and the wood looked to TC "as if its clear grain were moist with dew". But then again, that just might be the correct way to hold the damn thing.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Sky hit the nail on the head!
When we try to think about it logically there are only two possibilities: true or false, right or wrong, failed or succeeded the test.
But what happens when you have a logic theory with a contradiction? it's useless, you can prove or disprove anything. contradiction transcends logic, you need to move to a different realm.

I'm fascinated with SRD's exploration of contradiction / paradox, though I feel I haven't got to the bottom of it yet...

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