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A question about something in IW

 
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moksha Raver
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:33 pm    Post subject: A question about something in IW Reply with quote

Hi everyone!I'm new around here so I just wanted to say how great board you have.I was here once before,while I was reading LFB for the first time but I didn't want to register before I read the whole series.So now I'm here and I have a question for all those bright minds on this board.
In IW when TC is talking to HT(pg.188) he said:
"Actually,it isn't you they've got faith in at all.Just as they don't have faith in me.It's the student who summoned you.That's whom they've staked their faith on."
I don't get it.I mean,I understand why they don't thrust Covenant(well,at least some of them),but why wouldn't they thrust Troy?Because he is not from the Land?But then why did they make him a Warmark?And why would they trust Atiaran?
I'm lost in here so if anyone has any ideas...
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2002 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Lords trusted Atiaran because she was a former student of the Lorestaat, and the fact that she took Convenant across the land to deliver his message to the Council of the Lords, despite the fact that he had raped her daughter, she held her Oath of Peace. Plus she had tried to defend the Wraiths in Andelain.
As far as Hile Troy, he had proven his worth by besting Quann to become the Warmark, but the fact he was summoned by Atiaran who was trying to summon Convenant, they knew that was a mistake.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't think its a matter of trust - it's faith. I think the Lords trust the abilities of both TC & HT, but its thier (the Lord's) faith that drives them. They have faith in the white gold/wild magic (not necessarily TC). They know it will'save or damn' them... that is really the root of TC's paradox. Thats where they are 'faithful' to - thier beliefs. So when TC says its not them they have in, I take it to mean its thier knowledge they have faith in (and those who are true to thier beliefs).

I may not be getting this across very well, but that's my view....
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmm .. interesting .. I tried to find that passage quoted but clearly its not on the same page in the edition I have .. What chapter is it from?

I agree with the comments posted by Earthblood and JD too! The Lords faith was in the summoner not in the summoned. The summoner was committed to the act of summoning at that precise moment and we know that the summoning went astray ... but the Lords had sufficient faith in the summoner and her infact success in the act .. that they place faith in its 'effect'/result .. There faith so aligned in that alone .. that what ever 'effect' that resulted from the 'cause' [the summoning] had to be part of the bigger picture for the Land.

Thus as the summoning was an exercise of their revered Lore .. and the cause of the offworlder 'HT's presence .. then their faith in this 'effect' of that summoning .. they vicariously invested in HT.

The same it is with TC .. as Earthblood said .. the Lords and the other inhabitants of the Land had faith in the white gold .. yet they dubbed TC the 'unbeliever' imo .. because their faith couldnt be placed in him till he developed sufficient faith in himself.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a question that might answer yours....

If an ur-vile had summoned Hile Troy, would that Lords have trusted him?

B
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 9:12 pm    Post subject: RE:Question from TIW Reply with quote

Pehaps, though not as readily. They still had to trust TC even though he was summoned be TF and Drool.

TC could've been pertially wrong, too. He was still the Unbeliever, and rather bitter at the time. He could've just wanted to make HT doubt himself....

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting thought...
BraulioB wrote:
Here's a question that might answer yours....

If an ur-vile had summoned Hile Troy, would that Lords have trusted him?

B


it was LF & drool who originally summond TC.... Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes yes .. but I think the HT summoning was the interesting exception .. and the reason the inhabitants made the most of HT's summoning was purely because of Atiaran's sacrifice and her motivation for the summoning.

She was the student of the Loresraat (sp?) and was strongly motivated to attempt a summoning at that time .. to aid the Land .. ok sure she didnt get who she hoped for .. but she got HT instead .. and thus the inhabitants may have embraced the 'effect' of the summoning as a sign .. albeit awry.

Like fate.

anyway .. they embraced HT and made the best of it ..

As for TC .. it wasnt an issue .. to have faith in the summoners .. when they saw the half-hand and the ring .. they had faith in that .. and not in TC himself .. though personally I think this is yet another example of TC's assessment being a bit harsh ..

He believed that no-one had faith in him because he didnt share a faith in himself .. I think many did have faith in TC .. hence Atiaran's attempted summoning of TC inspite of the havoc he created for her family.
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moksha Raver
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir,to answer your question first.The chapter is called 'War Council'.The quote is at it's end.
It's interesting,how the people of the Land have faith in everything and everyone,except in HT&TC.I don't judge that,it's perfectly reasonable.I mean they do come form another,totally different world.People of the Land don't understand that world.How could they then understand people form that world?And people are often afraid of things they don't understand and therefore they can't have faith in them.But they did eventually started to trust HT&TC.It's why I love the Land that much.You don't have to prove that you are good(except HT&TC...again).Unless you do something bad people will trust you.
I agree with you Skyweir.TC doesn't think that anyone trusts him.I feel sorry for him in a way,but then again he didn't exactly try to do anything to make people trust him.(At least not in first Chronicles)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Along the same train of thought, moksha, TC continues to do 'bad' things (on purpose or thru inaction), but they still trust in thier lore that they must have faith in the white gold (particularly in the 'save' part of 'save or damn')

But isn't that part of (especially) TC's paradox - not of the land, so not understood by the land, but by thier faith, crucial to the land... Confused
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