The "New" Giants

hearthrall antonicus · Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 3:26 am Post subject:

Ur Dead... you just blew my mind! After all the scenarios I had thought of as far as Longwraths reason for trying to kill Linden, it had never occurred to me that he might be mistaken in the target of his animosity and rage.But, did I read somewhere that Joan is being tended to by the acid creatures, and I thought it was at a coastal location...I need to re read that in... Runes..I think...and if so, then Longwrath should have made a beeline to Joan. Ah, hell I m confusing myself.
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IrrationalSanity · Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 11:02 pm Post subject:

The reason we don't know these giants very well is that there were so many of them introduced at the same time. We haven't (yet) really had the one-on-one experience it takes to form an identity association.

All previous giant introductions were gradual. In 1st Chron, we only met Foamfollower. In the second, we first met a small party containing the First, Pitchwife, Honniscrave and Seadreamer, and we pretty much stayed with that team for a long time. Once we got the Ship, we were introduced to other giants gradually, and many not at all. Even so, Galewrath and Mistweave are the only later ones that really stick out in my mind.
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TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd · Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject:

Demondime-a-dozen-spawn · Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject:

It's interesting that the Giants say that Longwrath's obsession to locate and kill "her" isn't genuine Earthsight and that they are not on an "official" search.

As if Giantish Earthsight were a similar phenomenon to Sainthood that must be verified and endorsed by some Vatican-like Giantclave before it's recognized as such.
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IrrationalSanity · Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject:

Maybe among Giants true Earthsight is "I know it when I see it", and not every type of vision or geas qualifies.
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hearthrall antonicus · Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:37 am Post subject:

I wonder what quantifies genuine Earthsight? Do they(the Giants) sit and debate at length about the "symptoms", and then set up action plans for the issue. After all, I think the only person we know who had the Earthsight was Seadreamer. He was basically not an angry guy, more troubled and miserable than the insane Longwrath we are being shown.
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wayfriend · Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject:

Demondime-a-dozen-spawn · Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject:

"Delirancy"?

Quite the coinage.

-----

If Earthsight is as rare as they claim (which I don't doubt), its manifesting as "murderous rage" can't so easily be discounted.

-----

This situation is disturbingly akin to the quest for the One Tree, except that, while Seadreamer was certain it would lead to disaster, he made no overt effort to prevent it. Longwrath seems to take the opposite stance and is willing to kill to stop something terrible from going down.

Perhaps he wishes to spare us readers from the rigors of another stupefyingly boring sea voyage? Razz

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TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd · Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 12:55 am Post subject:

I don't see this as very complicated. Lord Foul helped Linden at the very beginning of this tetralogy as if she were his ally. Of course that makes her a threat, if not the main threat.

Wheelwash Whitecap · Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject: Longwraths rage

IMO.... His rage is caused by something other than earthsight. Something evil. If it was earthsight, Seeing that earthsight is from the land, The wraiths would not have prevented him from coming into to Andelian. I also do not think he would try to hurt his own breathern. Also Ironhand specifically states that they are not being guided by earthsight. Why or How is he able to escape his manacles? Possible examples for his rage and his abilities to escape his manacles listed below:

1. One of the Elohim have touched him some way.

2. Insequents have touched him.

3. Esmer has something to do with it.

4. Kastenessen....(Longwrath does stand at the bow of the ship enroute to the land...Like Findail did.....The giants had calm weather and following seas as long as they were headed in the direction Longwrath wanted...He showed his anger when the other giants were fighting and killing the Skurj.)

I think that his rage is only for LA. Why else would he make a beeline for her instead of Joan?

Another thing.... Longwrath escaped while in Bhrathairealm and broke into the armory getting a special Kasryen wrought sword. Made for combating Sandgorgons. What is the significance of that?
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wayfriend · Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:27 pm Post subject:

The special sword may be fated to deal with Sandgorgons in the next book. Or it may only be that the mention of Sandgorgons was just in passing, as a way of explaining why a human sword was large and strong enough for a Giant. I don't think we can tell either way at this time.

The manicle-escaping power seems to be the antithesis of Jeremiah's imprisoning power. Or it may be an extension of his door-making power.

I think "rage" is a big clue. Rage always goes with certain things in the Chronicles. It's nearly always the hallmark of despair, or the Despiser, I feel.

Saltheart Foamfollower, another Giant, raged. Because he succomed to battle lust. His rage made him immune to the events at Coercri. In Saltheart, rage was indicative of a person who was, like Covenant, accepting and integrating his darker side (his inner Despiser), which in the end made him stronger.
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Hashi Lebwohl · Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:53 pm Post subject:

I doubt that poor Longwrath's rage is Earth-Sight; rather, something--or someone--has implanted a type of geas on him. Also, the fact that it appears that "her" is Linden Avery is too simple--there is another "her" who threatens the Land--Joan, of course.

The fact that Longwrath is able to slip out of his restraints just like Joan does is a key to identifying the true purpose of his imposed rage.

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Vader · Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject:

earthbrah · Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:17 am Post subject:

Just another note on why these Giants may be different...

They've lost their skill with languages (Esmer's doing, if I recall). This may have something to do with why they are different.

Just a thought...
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wayfriend · Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject:

Good to see you around, EB.

I thought that Esmer didn't retract the gift of tongues until they were battling the skirj while atop the outcropping (in order to prevent Linden from communicating with the ur-viles).
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* I occasionally post things on KevinsWatch because I am a fan of Stephen R. Donaldson; this should not be considered as condonation of the white nationalist propaganda which is posted far too frequently on this website.

earthbrah · Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject:

Ah, you're probably right Wayfriend (about Esmer). I haven't really been thinking about the Chronicles for a while, but I was grabbed by this thread while browsing this morning.

And I agree that Donaldson does not seem to have taken the time to develop these Giants as much. However, he does have two more books in which to do it. I'm looking forward to it.

Perhaps if my job allows me more free time, I can get my head back in the game...it's good to be around...

Very Happy

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"Verily, wisdom is like hunger. Perhaps it is a very fine thing--but who would willingly partake of it."
--Saltheart Foamfollower

"Latency--what is concealed--is the demonstrable presence of the future."
--Jean Gebser

SkurjMaster · Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: Joan vs. Linden and Longwrath

Ur Dead,

I agree with your thoughts. It could be that he simply encountered Linden on his way to Joan. Where is Joan? If she is in Mount Thunder, he could have simply stumbled on her. Maybe Longwrath's affliction only permits him a template of the person he needs to kill.

I have two thoughts:
1) Wouldn't it be interesting if kill is not really his mission? Maybe disposing of the threat is all he knows, and, being a warrior, kill is the obvious choice. Am I missing something in the details of the story? It has been a while since I read any of this material.
2) Wouldn't it also be interesting if he is actually supposed to kill someone we have not even met yet, or if we have misunderstood the origin of the threat that he is trying to eliminate. Once again, I havent' read any of this material lately. Maybe time for a reread.

Just some wayward thinking.

Remillard · Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject:

I think we haven't had time to get to know them very well honestly. The introduction of the Giants in FR is much like the introduction of the Giants in TWL... under dire events at the very end of the novel.

And moreover I don't feel the need to "like" them the way other giants are liked. I never liked Honninscrave particularly, but I respected him as a character and could empathize with the straits he endured.

I see full evidence in the usual Giantish behaviors in the trash-talking between the Ironhand and her fellow Swordmainnir, so I fully expect the depiction of the Giants to be true to the culture. Remember that they are long-lived and far from fecund. There's no real room or reason for their culture to have changed substantially. I don't believe they are more barbaric; they are dealing with situations of extreme duress in their usual heroic manner.

sherifffruitfly2 · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:02 am Post subject:

The giants seem about the same to me, all things taken into account: the exigency of their not-a-Search, the unwelcome of the Masters, their long years of strain/guilt dealing with Longwrath, etc.

I don't believe for a second that anything like "the Land will be destroyed" is gonna happen.