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Vraith
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ParanoiA wrote:
Vraith wrote:
I bet you'd be hard pressed to find a parent willing to say "we're losing the house because I was too greedy/too lazy/too desperate to keep up with the neighbors/too stupid to figure out/whatever...that the mortgage was a lie...it is my fault, and son/daughter, the lesson here is read the fine print, if you don't understand it, find someone who does; and cash on hand and an 8 year old car is more important than a new SUV with a pile of debt.


I said almost exactly that to my wife and children. More along the lines of losing the house because I was too used to being "processed" and depending on some weird idea of infinite protection by laws (surely the government wouldn't let them screw me attitude). That we're losing our house because we compared ourselves to others and thought "well everybody else has multiple credit cards, car payments and fancy cell phones so..."

I think we've done a good job of exposing our kids to our economic hardships, and how we brought most of them on ourselves and our unrealistic thinking and rationalizing the short term at the expense of the long term, without traumatizing them or growing them up too soon.

I can't say I agree with ya Vraith. Hardship has taught me a lot. I would say premature hardship on a 14 year old is more likely to keep them from learning how to be creative and possibly some level of happiness. But I think they learn much from it, regardless.

First, if you did that you are are way above good, a nearly great parent...if they understood [or come to understand, since I don't know ages/maturity] it, you are a great parent period.
On hardship: I'm not sure the lines [which I drew harshly and without explanation] are clear, and the line moves depending on age vs. situation to be dealt with. A challenging situation can be good. There is a qualitative difference between "face this, learn from it" and "do this now, or you and your family will die."
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure you guys mean by hardship what I mean by hardship. I'm remembering 1991, the collapse of the Soviet Union, grocery stores with only one kind of baby food (and no other foods at all), delis with chicken's heads and feet (and nothing else), everyone having their personal goods laid out for sale on some newspapers, or doing barter to get something - anything - because it was impossible to buy it. Where the avg life span of men dropped to from 70 to 59. And lots more. On a national scale.

On your example, Vraith, you still learn. The teenager (or adult) who thinks the world owes him a living finds out the harsh way that it does not. (Which happened to me, too, btw)
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suffering builds character is my own view. Laughing

--A
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
Suffering builds character is my own view. Laughing

--A
True 'dat.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only if you don't let it defeat you.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I could argue that the occasional defeat does the same thing...teaches you to deal with disappointment.

--A
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point... Cool Wink
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"Carrion, my wayward son."
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha. Unless you meant defeat as in "I'm not gonna try anymore." That's certainly no good.

--A
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't think so, nope, not as a general rule.
Suffering or hardship or defeat can teach, but only in restricted contexts.
It's just like weightlifting: it can make you stronger, but if you're working beyond certain limits [fractions of healthy body weight, depending on particular muscle group are a good rule of thumb], or outside certain alignments, you're trading muscle strength gains for damage/destruction in other areas...and the strength drains away over time, while the damage/destruction is permanent.
Mind, character, personality, are no different.
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Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.

the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
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