Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

I Have the Answer (Big Spoiler, Possibly)
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Library -> George R. R. Martin Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
lucimay
Mott Irregular, Bridgeburner, Pirate

Ranyhyn
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 14979

Thanks: 22
Thanked 40 Times in 40 Posts

Location: Mott Wood, Genebakis
16472 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Mod Squad


PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok...so... who was secretly married to lyanna? who is the legitimate
heir to the iron throne? son of rhaegar or son of robert? (sorry its
all just a bit confusing to me)

i guess it'd have to be rhaegar right? cause robert never got the
chance to make a baby with her. so...was lyanna in love with
rhaegar rather than robert? Genly is robert's son, correct? we know
that due to ned's investigation. so...we've got jon snow, genly, dany,
and...eventually that last lannister kid possibly vying for the iron throne,
yes? i had always thought that eventually we'd see dany and jon teaming up against the threat from north of the wall but...will jon give up
the throne to stay at the wall? i believe bran will eventually be lord of
winterfell.

gah...i may need to re-read everything even as i watch events unfold on
the hbo series.

Laughing
_________________
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies



i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio



a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
I'm Murrin
Aren't you?


Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 15699

Thanks: 8
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts

Location: North East, UK
26371 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Rubber Duck


PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. The circumstances of how it all happened are unknown, but I think the things I point out in my post suggest that they were secretly married when he took her away to the Tower of Joy and got her pregnant, otherwise the child would be a bastard and have no legitimate claim to the throne, and hence wouldn't command the protection of the Kingsguard while more important things were happening in the realm.

Jon will stay on the Wall - as I mentioned, he gave up all his rights to inheritence and title when he swore his oath.
_________________
Inspiration Struck.

Mod of the General Fantasy/Sci-Fi Forum
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Farm Ur-Ted
Child of the Dead Seed


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 674

Thanks: 16
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

Location: Colorado
758 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Diamondraught1 Kresh1 Na Mhoram's Grim


PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, did Rhaeger not have a sister? How come he was banging a Stark when he could have been nailing his sister (or maybe a cousin or his mom)?
_________________
Roach trotted over to sniff at the gleaming phlegm, then licked it up.

The Bonehunters by Steven Erikson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dANdeLION
Leoninus Scurrae


Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 23836

Thanks: 26
Thanked 32 Times in 32 Posts

Location: In the jungle, the mighty jungle
4546 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Mod Squad1 Holy Launch Button1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murrin wrote:
Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. The circumstances of how it all happened are unknown.


I'm pretty sure a few glasses of wine and a Barry White album were part of it......
_________________
Dandelion don't tell no lies
Dandelion will make you wise
Tell me if she laughs or cries
Blow away dandelion


I'm afraid there's no denying
I'm just a dandelion
a fate I don't deserve.


High priest of THOOOTP

Hobbes *

* This post carries Jay's seal of approval
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
I'm Murrin
Aren't you?


Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 15699

Thanks: 8
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts

Location: North East, UK
26371 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Rubber Duck


PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farm Ur-Ted wrote:
So, did Rhaeger not have a sister? How come he was banging a Stark when he could have been nailing his sister (or maybe a cousin or his mom)?

Rhaegar's first sister was a young child, and his second was unborn. But he was promised to marry Cersei at the time, I think.
_________________
Inspiration Struck.

Mod of the General Fantasy/Sci-Fi Forum
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
I'm Murrin
Aren't you?


Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 15699

Thanks: 8
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts

Location: North East, UK
26371 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Rubber Duck


PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arg, I've forgotten too much. Rhaegar was already married, to Elia Martell. The children Gregor murdered were his, not Aerys'. So it is very unlikely he was married again. So why did the Kingsguard defend Lyanna in her tower?
_________________
Inspiration Struck.

Mod of the General Fantasy/Sci-Fi Forum
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
SerScot
That GRRM fan. ;) (7/12/11)

Male
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 4639

Thanks: 28
Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts


21863 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord Mhoram's Victory1 Revelwood


PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rhaegar was never promised to Cersei. Tywin simply hoped that Aerys II would allow Cersei to marry Rhaegar. Aerys was an ass who was jealous of the man who made the trains in his kingdom run on time. So, in a fit of pique, when Tywin offered Cersei as a wife for Rhaegar he told Tywin that his son would not marry the daughter of one of his servants.

That's why Tywin resigned the Handship and returned to Casterly Rock.
_________________
"Futility is the defining characteristic of life. Pain is proof of existence" - Thomas Covenant
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
caamora
The Purifier


Joined: 23 May 2002
Posts: 1997

Thanks: 5
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

Location: Southern California
1068 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG! You guys are totally blowing my mind. I really need to re-read the series from the beginning. I've forgotten so many of these details.

I always knew that Jon Snow was the son of Lyanna but I could never figure out the father. I thought it might be Robert but then it wouldn't matter and Ned wouldn't bother trying to figure out who killed what's-his-face - the other hand so that obviously never worked.

Thank you because that was driving me crazy!

But you guys lost me with the Sansa not being a real Stark thingy. Please elaborate.
_________________
Have you ever been going somewhere with a crowd and you're certain it's the wrong road and you tell them, but they won't listen, so you just have to plod along in what you know is the wrong direction till somebody more important gets the same idea?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
caamora
The Purifier


Joined: 23 May 2002
Posts: 1997

Thanks: 5
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

Location: Southern California
1068 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, if Jon is a Targaryan, then perhaps we will see this come full circle and he and Danerys will marry and start a new dynasty.
_________________
Have you ever been going somewhere with a crowd and you're certain it's the wrong road and you tell them, but they won't listen, so you just have to plod along in what you know is the wrong direction till somebody more important gets the same idea?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
I'm Murrin
Aren't you?


Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 15699

Thanks: 8
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts

Location: North East, UK
26371 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Rubber Duck


PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, as I pointed out, he swore his vows and he takes them seriously. He won't take Stannis' offer to release him and legitimise him, and he won't take any such offer from Daenerys.

One of the main themes of his storyline is that he belongs to the Night Watch now (it was the main point of his deserting to join the wildlings, for example - to reaffirm his place among the black brothers).

There's also the parallel of Maester Aemon, who was heir to the throne and instead took the black and forswore it all, and did not get involved even while his family were being destroyed. His telling Jon that story in the first book was a way of saying what lies ahead in Jon's own life.
_________________
Inspiration Struck.

Mod of the General Fantasy/Sci-Fi Forum
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
SerScot
That GRRM fan. ;) (7/12/11)

Male
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 4639

Thanks: 28
Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts


21863 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Lord Mhoram's Victory1 Revelwood


PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murrin,

If the Wall is destroyed and the purpose of the NW ends, what then? That said I'll be shocked if there is a happy fairy tale Jon marries Dany founds new dynasty ending to ASOIAF.
_________________
"Futility is the defining characteristic of life. Pain is proof of existence" - Thomas Covenant
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18619

Thanks: 43
Thanked 191 Times in 183 Posts


32045 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God, what a soap opera.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
I'm Murrin
Aren't you?


Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 15699

Thanks: 8
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts

Location: North East, UK
26371 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Rubber Duck


PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of Arya's chapters in ASoS fills us in on the rest of the story, though of course it doesn't come out and say the actual truth.

Wylla, mentioned by Robert in AGoT, was Jon's wet nurse, and wet nurse to Edric Dayne of Starfall. His aunt was Ashara Dayne, thought of by Catelyn in AGoT as possibly Jon's mother, who had killed herself.

According to Edric (another Ned, Beric's squire), Ashara and Ned had met at Harrenhal and fallen in love, before Brandon Stark was murdered by Aerys.

If we piece together the story, then Ned killed Ashara's brother Ser Arthur Dayne at the Tower of Joy, found the dying Lyanna, retrieved her son Jon, and travelled to Starfall, where Jon was given to the wet nurse to care for while he had no one else. Ashara learns that her brother is dead at the hand of the man she loves, and that he has married Catelyn Stark, leading to her later suicide. Ned had already decided to keep Jon as his own bastard at the tower, where he swore Howland Reed to keep the secret, and so he also had a bastard child with another women when he turned up married at his lover's castle.

His honor, and the need to keep his promise to his sister against Robert's hatred of Targaryens, put Ned in quite the uncomfortable position.
_________________
Inspiration Struck.

Mod of the General Fantasy/Sci-Fi Forum
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
thranathiril
Woodhelvennin


Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 58

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: Bermuda
125 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:25 am    Post subject: Re : another clue concerning Jon Reply with quote

One other thing that is another pointer to the R + L =J theory is one of the visions that Dany has in the Houses of the UNdying in Quarth. She sees a blue flower blooming in a wall of ice.

Blue flowers are mentioned in conjunction with Ned's memories of his sister. Jon is at The Wall.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Library -> George R. R. Martin Forum All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch