Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Barack Obama: The Undistinguished Gentleman
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 179, 180, 181, 182, 183  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Hile Troy's Think-Tank
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18658

Thanks: 43
Thanked 191 Times in 183 Posts


32293 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Av, depends on which companies you're talking about. Medical device companies don't like the new tax on medical devices, which they have to pay whether they make a profit or not. Insurance companies, however, benefit from ACA by every American being forced to buy their product.

The insurance companies don't want the law to collapse, especially in this way. If the subsidies are ruled unconstitutional by the SCOTUS, then people who can't afford insurance will opt out of the system ... especially the healthy/young people who didn't want to buy insurance in the first place. This will leave all the unhealthy people who need insurance, driving up costs for the insurance companies, forcing them to raise premiums. Also, they've already performed their calculations for rates for the coming year, and if the SCOTUS rules against ACA, they'll have to scramble to redo all that work. Very costly and disruptive.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 60097

Thanks: 74
Thanked 193 Times in 189 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
37495 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was talking about medical companies. If they're the ones increasing their rates (which will lead to insurance companies having to do the same thing of course) and they would prefer it to fail, wouldn't big increases put greater pressure on insurers/government from the public (who end up bearing the brunt) to change or repeal the law?

--A
_________________
It's easy to judge. It's more difficult to understand.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18658

Thanks: 43
Thanked 191 Times in 183 Posts


32293 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure what a 'medical company' is. I don't think anyone intentionally makes their product too expensive in order to alter federal law. ACA forces people to buy insurance. People use insurance to buy medical products. It would make no sense for companies to try to get ACA repealed when it gives them access to customers they previously would not have.

This is not the reason ACA is failing. It's failing for exactly the reasons that were predicted back in 2009-2010. All of this was foreseen by anyone with a little knowledge of the industry and the law.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 60097

Thanks: 74
Thanked 193 Times in 189 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
37495 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I didn't specify medical device companies, but it doesn't mater, I misunderstood your point in the previous post anyway.

Who stands to gain the most from the act? And who stands to lose? (Apart from the public.)

--A
_________________
It's easy to judge. It's more difficult to understand.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
sindatur
The Grey Owl Wizard

Male
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 6503

Thanks: 9
Thanked 33 Times in 33 Posts


6351 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2009 Watchies


PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
Ok, I didn't specify medical device companies, but it doesn't mater, I misunderstood your point in the previous post anyway.

Who stands to gain the most from the act? And who stands to lose? (Apart from the public.)

--A
At this point, if the Act failed or gets repealed, pretty much everyone stands to lose (Insurance companies lose all the extra customers, people who can afford Insurance stand to lose their Insurance, all kinds of Companies and the Government stand to lose their investment in the infrastructure to accommodate the Act, and will lose more switching back, Big Pharma makes money off the sweet deals from the Act...

About the only ones who win, is The Politicians (And their supporters) who think repealing the Act is a good idea and may gain Political Capitol.

Wether you believe implementing the Act was a good idea or not, reversing it is a bad and costly idea for everyone
_________________
I Never Fail To Be Astounded By The Things We Do For Promises - Ronnie James Dio (All The Fools Sailed Away)

Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain

Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18658

Thanks: 43
Thanked 191 Times in 183 Posts


32293 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murrin, yes it will be costly and tumultuous. And that's just how the admin wants it to seem, so that the SCOTUS won't overturn it, and if they do people will blame Republicans. In my Trojan Horse thread, I predicted long ago that this was the path to a universal health care system. The chaos may get bad enough that people will start demanding it.

Reps are already working on a temporary fix to sustain the subsidies for a year if the SCOTUS rules them unconstitutional next month. After that, they better have an alternative ready to go.

Av, the entire health care industry benefits from this law (except medical device companies, but they're a small part). People with preexisting conditions benefit from the law. But the overall economy suffers. Those who already had insurance (85%) suffer. Anyone wanting to start a business or hire more employees suffers. People wanting to work full time instead of part time suffer. People who don't want to be forced to buy a product they don't need suffer.

There are better ways to do this, without limiting our freedom. Our freedom can actually be the force that brings down cost and increases access and (most importantly--though it's ignored in most debates) improve our health. Consumer driven health plans care do all these things.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 16433

Thanks: 29
Thanked 139 Times in 135 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
94286 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sindatur wrote:

Wether you believe implementing the Act was a good idea or not, reversing it is a bad and costly idea for everyone


Allowing a piece of faulty legislation to remain in place because repealing it would be costly is a very bad reason to retain the legislation. Create a better system as has been discussed in other threads and we will all learn to live with the temporary discomfort of the transition. The long term benefits will far outweigh the short-term drawbacks. This, though, is the problem--no one wants to experience any discomfort any more; instead, too many people wants things to be easy all the time. Unfortunately, reality isn't like that.
_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 60097

Thanks: 74
Thanked 193 Times in 189 Posts

Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
37495 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Pantheon Veteran1 Furls Fire


PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was Sin, not Murrin. Very Happy

Seems like it's just a big mess all round huh? Very Happy

--A
_________________
It's easy to judge. It's more difficult to understand.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Phoogle Map
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18658

Thanks: 43
Thanked 191 Times in 183 Posts


32293 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So, to recap: ObamaCare has fallen short of its enrollment target, hiked insurance premiums, failed to cut down on ER visits, and flopped in its attempt to improve hospitals' bottom line.


[url]reason.com/archives/2015/06/12/outside-the-liberal-la-la-land-obamacare
[/url]


The rest of the Reason.com article is pretty good, though a bit technical. I haven't heard anyone else (besides my wife) talk about the massive increase in premiums everyone is going to pay due to a new Hep C drug on the market. It's incredibly expensive, and there are lots of free-lovin' Baby Boomers who have more than just their memories of the 70s ... yep, their lifestyle choices are coming to home to bite us all in the wallet.

The point is that Obamacare is failing, on all fronts. It's not only the upcoming SCOTUS ruling, but every single prediction and promise that we were told about this law was either inaccurate or a flat out lie.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sgt.null
jack of odd trades; master of fun

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 44922

Thanks: 49
Thanked 96 Times in 95 Posts

Location: texas
8604 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2007 Watchies1 2005 Watchies1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

should have tied health care into work insurance. people work - they get insurance.

I guess that is too simplistic?
_________________
life's not a paragraph
And death i think is no parenthesis”
― E.E. Cummings

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 16433

Thanks: 29
Thanked 139 Times in 135 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
94286 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgt.null wrote:
should have tied health care into work insurance. people work - they get insurance.

I guess that is too simplistic?


That might cause some people who are adverse to work to go out and get a job, though.
_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18658

Thanks: 43
Thanked 191 Times in 183 Posts


32293 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't that the system we already had? The one that 85% of this country was already using to get insurance?
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sgt.null
jack of odd trades; master of fun

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 44922

Thanks: 49
Thanked 96 Times in 95 Posts

Location: texas
8604 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 2007 Watchies1 2005 Watchies1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
Wasn't that the system we already had? The one that 85% of this country was already using to get insurance?


but we could get those 15% to vote democrat and maybe keep them on a permanent basis doing so.
_________________
life's not a paragraph
And death i think is no parenthesis”
― E.E. Cummings

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
SoulBiter
Cail is missed!!!

Ranyhyn
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 6431

Thanks: 27
Thanked 55 Times in 54 Posts


20506 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Forbidding1 Giant Ship1 Giant


PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I was looking for something else and I stumbled upon this

Apparently Jimmy Carter wanted to put in a National Healthcare Insurance. I had forgotten that. Of course I was young enough then that healthcare wasnt on my radar.
_________________
"He torments himself sufficiently."

**"You can deny if you will but the "hens" didn't just happen to show up when they did, by accident. "**

"All of the above is my opinion and thus shouldnt need to be supported by anything other than more of my opinions. twocents "

We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 16433

Thanks: 29
Thanked 139 Times in 135 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
94286 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It probably would have been easier back...but who can say?
_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SoulBiter
Cail is missed!!!

Ranyhyn
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 6431

Thanks: 27
Thanked 55 Times in 54 Posts


20506 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Forbidding1 Giant Ship1 Giant


PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corporations dumping workers insurance

The largest corporations are getting out of the insurance business and dumping people on the healthcare exchanges. We all foresaw this yet many thought it would never happen. Well here you are. Most cite
Quote:
anticipating retiree health-related expenses would triple by 2020 through mounting premiums
as the reason. IBM at least is subsidising but most companies are not and will not. So the company gets to see higher profit, while the workers try to figure out how to pay for insurance out of pocket and outside of the group plans. Nothing like finding a way to transfer cost from the bottom line to the workers.

Funny enough, the administration will claim 15 million more people on ACA as a win.. when really they were dumped from better insurance into exchanges where if you don't get subsidies due to 'low income' your premiums will be very high and your deductables will be in the neighborhood of 5K to 10K.

Quote:
Corporate America stands to save trillions of dollars by pushing workers and retirees off company-sponsored health plans onto less costly insurance exchanges
GE alone reported saving $3.3 billion by moving retired production workers to a private exchange, where they will join salaried retirees, according to a quarterly filing last month. The Fairfield, Conn.-based company had already reported $832 million in savings on retiree health benefits in 2012 and $586 million in 2014.

"We are in a transitional period," Thomas Kochan, a professor of employment policy at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said in an interview. "U.S. corporations would save an aggregate $3.25 trillion by moving their employees and retirees to private exchanges."

_________________
"He torments himself sufficiently."

**"You can deny if you will but the "hens" didn't just happen to show up when they did, by accident. "**

"All of the above is my opinion and thus shouldnt need to be supported by anything other than more of my opinions. twocents "

We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hashi Lebwohl
Director of Data Acquisition

Male
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 16433

Thanks: 29
Thanked 139 Times in 135 Posts

Location: UMCPHQ
94286 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caesure1 Insequent1 UMCPHQ


PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally. Now the ACA is beginning to work like it was designed to work--save corporations tons of money by allowing them to dump insured employees while also giving huge bonuses to health insurance providers by creating a new customer base for them via the Exchanges.

The sad thing is that many die-hard Democrat fans think that their party is still the party of the little guy, fighting back against Big Business when, in reality, the ACA is going to be one of the biggest boons for Big Business to come along since the invention of junk bonds.

_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Don Exnihilote wrote:
Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


Mensa and Intertel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18658

Thanks: 43
Thanked 191 Times in 183 Posts


32293 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoulBiter wrote:
Corporations dumping workers insurance

The largest corporations are getting out of the insurance business and dumping people on the healthcare exchanges. We all foresaw this yet many thought it would never happen. Well here you are. Most cite
Quote:
anticipating retiree health-related expenses would triple by 2020 through mounting premiums
as the reason. IBM at least is subsidising but most companies are not and will not. So the company gets to see higher profit, while the workers try to figure out how to pay for insurance out of pocket and outside of the group plans. Nothing like finding a way to transfer cost from the bottom line to the workers.

Funny enough, the administration will claim 15 million more people on ACA as a win.. when really they were dumped from better insurance into exchanges where if you don't get subsidies due to 'low income' your premiums will be very high and your deductables will be in the neighborhood of 5K to 10K.

Quote:
Corporate America stands to save trillions of dollars by pushing workers and retirees off company-sponsored health plans onto less costly insurance exchanges
GE alone reported saving $3.3 billion by moving retired production workers to a private exchange, where they will join salaried retirees, according to a quarterly filing last month. The Fairfield, Conn.-based company had already reported $832 million in savings on retiree health benefits in 2012 and $586 million in 2014.

"We are in a transitional period," Thomas Kochan, a professor of employment policy at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said in an interview. "U.S. corporations would save an aggregate $3.25 trillion by moving their employees and retirees to private exchanges."


This is how you transition people to a single-payer system where they blame corporations instead of politicians. Government becomes the "solution" to the problem they created themselves.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SoulBiter
Cail is missed!!!

Ranyhyn
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 6431

Thanks: 27
Thanked 55 Times in 54 Posts


20506 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Forbidding1 Giant Ship1 Giant


PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is also how you make large corporations willing partners in moving in that direction. What company wouldnt decide eventually, that its in their best interest to get out of the insurance business? (unless you are actually in the insurance business Laughing )

Eventually no one will be offered healthcare by their employers. I can see insurance going the way of pensions where those that have them are grandfathered in, but anybody that hires on after a specific date will have to buy their own insurance on the exchanges. Heck where I work we did that with pensions a few years ago. So I have a pension, but anyone hired on after 2010 doesnt get one. They however get a 3% better match on their 401K. Course I did the math on this, and the company makes out much better and the employee does worse. The only upside is that you own your 401K, not the company. Course when I retire Im doing a cashout and rollover to a 401K so I have control of that money as well.
_________________
"He torments himself sufficiently."

**"You can deny if you will but the "hens" didn't just happen to show up when they did, by accident. "**

"All of the above is my opinion and thus shouldnt need to be supported by anything other than more of my opinions. twocents "

We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarathustra
Be True


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18658

Thanks: 43
Thanked 191 Times in 183 Posts


32293 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Employers got into the health insurance business as a way to attract employees with benefits that they could offer cheaper than a simple raise. The benefit to the employee was greater than the cost to the employer, so it made sense as a benefit.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> Hile Troy's Think-Tank All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 179, 180, 181, 182, 183  Next
Page 180 of 183

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch