Barack Obama: The Undistinguished Gentleman

Zarathustra · Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 1:03 pm Post subject:

Av, depends on which companies you're talking about. Medical device companies don't like the new tax on medical devices, which they have to pay whether they make a profit or not. Insurance companies, however, benefit from ACA by every American being forced to buy their product.

The insurance companies don't want the law to collapse, especially in this way. If the subsidies are ruled unconstitutional by the SCOTUS, then people who can't afford insurance will opt out of the system ... especially the healthy/young people who didn't want to buy insurance in the first place. This will leave all the unhealthy people who need insurance, driving up costs for the insurance companies, forcing them to raise premiums. Also, they've already performed their calculations for rates for the coming year, and if the SCOTUS rules against ACA, they'll have to scramble to redo all that work. Very costly and disruptive.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche

Avatar · Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 5:19 am Post subject:

I was talking about medical companies. If they're the ones increasing their rates (which will lead to insurance companies having to do the same thing of course) and they would prefer it to fail, wouldn't big increases put greater pressure on insurers/government from the public (who end up bearing the brunt) to change or repeal the law?

--A
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It's easy to judge. It's more difficult to understand.

Zarathustra · Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject:

I'm not sure what a 'medical company' is. I don't think anyone intentionally makes their product too expensive in order to alter federal law. ACA forces people to buy insurance. People use insurance to buy medical products. It would make no sense for companies to try to get ACA repealed when it gives them access to customers they previously would not have.

This is not the reason ACA is failing. It's failing for exactly the reasons that were predicted back in 2009-2010. All of this was foreseen by anyone with a little knowledge of the industry and the law.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche

Avatar · Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 4:26 am Post subject:

Ok, I didn't specify medical device companies, but it doesn't mater, I misunderstood your point in the previous post anyway.

Who stands to gain the most from the act? And who stands to lose? (Apart from the public.)

--A
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It's easy to judge. It's more difficult to understand.

sindatur · Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:14 pm Post subject:

Zarathustra · Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:33 pm Post subject:

Murrin, yes it will be costly and tumultuous. And that's just how the admin wants it to seem, so that the SCOTUS won't overturn it, and if they do people will blame Republicans. In my Trojan Horse thread, I predicted long ago that this was the path to a universal health care system. The chaos may get bad enough that people will start demanding it.

Reps are already working on a temporary fix to sustain the subsidies for a year if the SCOTUS rules them unconstitutional next month. After that, they better have an alternative ready to go.

Av, the entire health care industry benefits from this law (except medical device companies, but they're a small part). People with preexisting conditions benefit from the law. But the overall economy suffers. Those who already had insurance (85%) suffer. Anyone wanting to start a business or hire more employees suffers. People wanting to work full time instead of part time suffer. People who don't want to be forced to buy a product they don't need suffer.

There are better ways to do this, without limiting our freedom. Our freedom can actually be the force that brings down cost and increases access and (most importantly--though it's ignored in most debates) improve our health. Consumer driven health plans care do all these things.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche

Hashi Lebwohl · Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 3:05 pm Post subject:

Avatar · Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:03 am Post subject:

That was Sin, not Murrin. Very Happy

Seems like it's just a big mess all round huh? Very Happy

--A
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It's easy to judge. It's more difficult to understand.

Zarathustra · Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:24 pm Post subject:

sgt.null · Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:52 am Post subject:

should have tied health care into work insurance. people work - they get insurance.

I guess that is too simplistic?
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And death i think is no parenthesis”
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Hashi Lebwohl · Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:46 pm Post subject:

Zarathustra · Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:25 pm Post subject:

Wasn't that the system we already had? The one that 85% of this country was already using to get insurance?
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche

sgt.null · Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:31 am Post subject:

SoulBiter · Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:57 pm Post subject:

Well I was looking for something else and I stumbled upon this

Apparently Jimmy Carter wanted to put in a National Healthcare Insurance. I had forgotten that. Of course I was young enough then that healthcare wasnt on my radar.
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"He torments himself sufficiently."

**"You can deny if you will but the "hens" didn't just happen to show up when they did, by accident. "**

"All of the above is my opinion and thus shouldnt need to be supported by anything other than more of my opinions. twocents

"

We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch

Hashi Lebwohl · Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:18 pm Post subject:

It probably would have been easier back...but who can say?
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No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

SoulBiter · Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:38 pm Post subject:

Corporations dumping workers insurance

The largest corporations are getting out of the insurance business and dumping people on the healthcare exchanges. We all foresaw this yet many thought it would never happen. Well here you are. Most cite

Hashi Lebwohl · Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:35 pm Post subject:

Finally. Now the ACA is beginning to work like it was designed to work--save corporations tons of money by allowing them to dump insured employees while also giving huge bonuses to health insurance providers by creating a new customer base for them via the Exchanges.

The sad thing is that many die-hard Democrat fans think that their party is still the party of the little guy, fighting back against Big Business when, in reality, the ACA is going to be one of the biggest boons for Big Business to come along since the invention of junk bonds.
_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

Zarathustra · Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:54 pm Post subject:

SoulBiter · Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:28 pm Post subject:

This is also how you make large corporations willing partners in moving in that direction. What company wouldnt decide eventually, that its in their best interest to get out of the insurance business? (unless you are actually in the insurance business Laughing

)

Eventually no one will be offered healthcare by their employers. I can see insurance going the way of pensions where those that have them are grandfathered in, but anybody that hires on after a specific date will have to buy their own insurance on the exchanges. Heck where I work we did that with pensions a few years ago. So I have a pension, but anyone hired on after 2010 doesnt get one. They however get a 3% better match on their 401K. Course I did the math on this, and the company makes out much better and the employee does worse. The only upside is that you own your 401K, not the company. Course when I retire Im doing a cashout and rollover to a 401K so I have control of that money as well.
_________________
"He torments himself sufficiently."

**"You can deny if you will but the "hens" didn't just happen to show up when they did, by accident. "**

"All of the above is my opinion and thus shouldnt need to be supported by anything other than more of my opinions. twocents

"

We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch

Zarathustra · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:42 pm Post subject:

Employers got into the health insurance business as a way to attract employees with benefits that they could offer cheaper than a simple raise. The benefit to the employee was greater than the cost to the employer, so it made sense as a benefit.
_________________
Meaning is created internally by each individual in each specific life: any attempt at *meaning* which relies on some kind of external superstructure (God, Satan, the Creator, the Worm, whatever) for its substance misses the point (I mean the point of my story). -SRD

Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche