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Vraith
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Now even Democrats--including Nancy Pelosi herself--
Quote:


to block another bill giving Obama fast-track authority to ram the TPP through Congress on a yes-or-no vote.



[color=green]This should be the red flag that the time has come to make the full text of the deal public and let it have debate like any other treaty or trade deal.


It probably is that kind of flag...but it will likely hang limply hidden behind some strategically placed trees, like a trap/stop sign.

By now we all know I think there are hints of serious problems with the treaty===
But this strategy [and the quote you included] are both the kind of shitty things that seem to be 100% of our congress now. Pelosi shouldn't try to kill the one thing by killing another any more than the Rep's should have shut down the gov't with the idiotic and damaging debt ceiling crap.

And "ramming it through on a yes-or-no vote?" So what? That's what they SHOULD do. [the "fast-track", btw, does not prevent debate AFAICT...filibusters and amendments, yes---but not debate.]

If you don't like it, then freaking VOTE NO.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a predictable lack of courage or leadership, Hillary finally states publicly her opposition to TPP--a trade agreement which she praised 45 times while SoS-- now that Bernie Sanders showed a strong second place in recent polling (41 to 49). Previously, she avoided making the tough call of contradicting her old boss, the President, or simply telling the truth that she's absolutely behind this deal. Now that she's vulnerable on the Left, it's pandering time! Flip-flop away!

Pathetic on so many levels. So transparently fake. I can't believe she still has the support of most of her party. Dems, what you thinking?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
Now that she's vulnerable on the Left, it's pandering time! Flip-flop away!

Pathetic on so many levels. So transparently fake. I can't believe she still has the support of most of her party. Dems, what you thinking?


She's always been vulnerable on the Left for some issues.
I doubt she's "pandering"---and especially not because of Bernie who no on believes has a chance.

And "Flip-Flopping" is now [has been for a while] part of the definition of "major party candidate." If you haven't flip-flopped, you're not qualified to be a Donkey or Elephant candidate.

I don't KNOW what all Dem's are thinking---but I bet most are thinking two things: She's not a lunatic, and she's not Jeb.
[[[heh...and it's possible we'll find out both those things are false, when she wins and enacts some policies of both]]

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the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damnit! House Republicans, [url=thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/245417-house-approves-fast-track-218-208-sending-bill-to-senate]at least a majority of them as well as 28 Democrats[/url], just approved giving Mr. Obama the "fast track" authority to negotiate the upcoming trade deals like the TPP. I thought they were the Party of No? I thought some of them had made their career for the last few years "I will oppose the President's agenda"?

Didn't Congress, nearly 20 years ago, vote to impeach a sitting President for receiving a blow job in the Oval Office? This Congress is the one who just gave the sitting President a blow job--my, how times have changed.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not content to sit and watch the House give the President a hummer, the Senate voted to end debate on the issue so that they may give the President a sensual massage with a happy ending.

I still thought the Republicans were the Party of No and the Party of Opposing Obama. They don't seem too oppositional here.....

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:

I still thought the Republicans were the Party of No and the Party of Opposing Obama. They don't seem too oppositional here.....


Well, yea. But you don't really think that in the broader context [I'm aware that the satire/irony is probably intentional].
It fits perfectly with your larger [and pretty accurate, unfortunately, much of the time] view that there isn't that much difference between Dems and Reps on some things.
Whatever other impacts, for good or ill, the agreement will have, it will almost certainly be good for big business/big money...and Reps will almost always go for that...and the Dems only very very slightly less often.
[[and a fortunate political side effect is O and Reps can now say "See? We CAN work together sometimes.]]

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Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.

the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraith wrote:

[I'm aware that the satire/irony is probably intentional].


Definitely intentional.

On this issue, the politicians know that they and their corporate backers stand to make a lot of money so everyone is very keen to push these trade deals through as quickly as possible.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While everyone was distracted by the flag and gay marriage, congress quietly passed the bill to give Obama fast track capability.... TPP is coming and it won't be good
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoulBiter wrote:
While everyone was distracted by the flag and gay marriage, congress quietly passed the bill to give Obama fast track capability.... TPP is coming and it won't be good
You know, I noticed when this passed and I did not have to search particularly hard for it. I do not think there is some mass conspiracy to distract the masses from the legislation regarding this, I just believe the masses do not have the processing power to begin to understand what's going on (traitor flags and gay marriage are incredibly simple topics by comparison).

I mean, the vast majority of commentary focuses on "Duh, secrets are...bad" and promulgating the demonstrably false "you have to pass it to see what's in it" narrative. The masses does not need a distraction, they probably look at the term "Trans-Pacific Partnership and faint as their collective eye-balls roll back into their skulls.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orlion wrote:
I do not think there is some mass conspiracy to distract the masses from the legislation regarding this, I just believe the masses do not have the processing power to begin to understand what's going on (traitor flags and gay marriage are incredibly simple topics by comparison).


Sounds likely.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The European Parliament has endorsed the TTIP, the Transatlantic deal similar to the TPP. It, also, is being negotiated in complete secrecy and establish a supra-national tribunal under which corporations will have more power and authority than national governments.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The start of Gibson's corporate states?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possibly. Thus far, buying individual politicians has been the typical route to power but perhaps that tactic is inefficient or too costly--buying one or two politicians is easy, buying a majority would break the bank. Setting up a tribunal, though, that would limit certain aspects of a government's power and getting that government to voluntarily submit itself to an external authority....ah, now that is the efficient path to power. As noted, the politicians who are only too happy to enact such things stand to make a lot of money from it, which is why they are willing to go along with it.

edit to add: Even human trafficking concerns are irrelevant--the show must go on!

Quote:
The Obama administration is reportedly poised to remove Malaysia from its list of the worst human trafficking hubs in a move that will ease negotiations over the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal. Last year, the United States downgraded Malaysia to a Tier 3 rating. But a measure by New Jersey Senator Bob Menendez bars the United States from enacting trade deals with Tier 3 countries. Despite protests from human rights groups, Reuters reports the State Department will upgrade Malaysia’s status, allowing it to remain part of the TPP.


That's right--putting a nation on the human trafficking watch list would prevent the TPP so rather than cutting that country out of the deal or waiting for them to get their act together and crack down on the traffickers our solution is to remove them from the watch list just so the TPP can be pushed through faster. Big Business and politicians have too much money to make to be worried about a few sex trade victims.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, that's bad.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the [url=america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/5/12-Nation-pacific-trade-pact-reached.html]countries involved have reached an agreement on the TPP[/url] so we are now one step closer to becoming a global corporatocracy, given that the TPP's tribunal will be populated with industry insiders who will side with corporations over governments if those governments dare to do anything which will cut into current or future profit streams.

Quote:
Pacific trade ministers have reached a deal on the most sweeping — and to many the most controversial — trade liberalization pact in a generation, in a move that will cut trade barriers and set common standards across the bloc, but potentially at a cost to consumers and employees, say public health advocates, environmentalists and labor groups.

Leaders from a dozen Pacific Rim nations are poised to announce the pact later on Monday. The deal could reshape industries and influence everything from the price of cheese to the cost of cancer treatments.

The Trans-Pacific Partnership would affect 40 percent of the world economy and would stand as a legacy-defining achievement for U.S. President Barack Obama, if it is ratified by Congress.

Lawmakers in other TPP countries must also approve the deal.

The final round of negotiations in Atlanta, which began on Wednesday, had snared on the question of how long a monopoly period should be allowed on next-generation biotech drugs, until the U.S. and Australia negotiated a compromise.

But the pact has proved controversial for a number reasons.

One contentious aspect would allows an international court of arbitration to settle economic disputes between multinational companies and countries arising from purported violations to the agreement.

Critics like Sen. Eizabeth Warren argue that the so-called “Investor-State Dispute Settlement” provision would mean in practice that rulings which would affect millions of Americans could be decided outside of U.S. courts.

Labor groups have also panned the pact. U.S. unions argue that the deal — by opening up members to competition abroad — would lead to jobs being shipped to other countries. Labor groups have argued that a major result of the landmark NAFTA agreement signed in 1994 with Mexico and Canada resulted in U.S. job losses.

“We are disappointed that our negotiators rushed to conclude the TPP in Atlanta, given all the concerns that have been raised by American stakeholders and members of Congress,” AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka said in a statement. “The Administration had a hard time reaching this deal for good reasons: it appears that many problematic concessions were made in order to finalize the deal.”

Aid groups, meanwhile, have argued that the TTP protections concerning pharmaceutical drugs will lead to companies raising prices and restricting access on products needed by some of the world’s poorest populations.

But U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry praised the agreement, saying it will “spur economic growth and prosperity, enhance competitiveness, and bring jobs to American shores.”

“[b]y setting high standards on labor, the environment, intellectual property, and a free and open Internet, this agreement will level the playing field for American businesses and workers,” said Kerry.


How, exactly, is this going to bring jobs to the United States when it will help make it easier for corporations to offshore jobs where they can pay people less and offer fewer benefits? That is like saying that you are going to light up the room by turning the switch off.

The Republicans in Congress, along with most Democrats, are going to take their time and look over the deal even though they can't wait to approve it. They are already counting the money they will make with this deal.

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Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this the start of Gibson's corporate states? Very Happy

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the analysis of many TPP critics is true and there really will be an international tribunal under which corporations may sue national governments and the tribunal is benched by pro-industry judges then the answer would be "yes".

The only good thing that can be said about global corporatocracy is that it will bring an end to most regional conflicts. People killing other people is bad for business and anything which is bad for business would have to be stopped.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THIS is why I hate these 'partnership agreements'. They are anti-consumer.

Quote:
The House Agriculture Committee voted 38-6 to repeal a "country-of-origin" labeling law for beef, pork and chicken Wednesday — just two days after the World Trade Organization ruled against parts of the law. The labels tell consumers what countries the meat is from: for example, "born in Canada, raised and slaughtered in the United States" or "born, raised and slaughtered in the United States."

The WTO ruled Monday that the U.S. labels put Canadian and Mexican livestock at a disadvantage, rejecting a U.S. appeal after a similar WTO decision last year.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most provisions of the TPP--well, the ones they deign to let us know about since most of the text is still secret--are anti-consumer. The TPP has one and only one goal: protecting multinational profit streams.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
People killing other people is bad for business and anything which is bad for business would have to be stopped.


Depends what your business is...plenty of money to be made in wars.

--A
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