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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
The latest ruling struck down appeals from Virginia, Utah, Oklahoma, Indiana and Wisconsin against rulings which struck down their laws forbidding homosexual marriages. Those States are are now issuing marriage licenses and the grand total of States in which homosexual marriages are now legal stands at 30.

Is this the result that pro-SSM people wanted?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ussusimiel wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
The latest ruling struck down appeals from Virginia, Utah, Oklahoma, Indiana and Wisconsin against rulings which struck down their laws forbidding homosexual marriages. Those States are are now issuing marriage licenses and the grand total of States in which homosexual marriages are now legal stands at 30.

Is this the result that pro-SSM people wanted?

u.

Opinions differ.
It's a definite win for SSM in a number of ways.
The refusal to hear means that there is, right now, no acceptable format for banning SSM. All the current language/arguments/methods have failed. Completely new language/arguments will be required to enact such a ban.

Which means in states where SSM doesn't already exist, people can go to court and make it happen with very high odds of a good outcome.

Also, I haven't looked into all the details, so I'm not sure of the validity, but folk are saying the non-hearing means that SSM can go forward not only in those named states, but in 5 or 6 other states that are governed by the circuit courts that have struck down the bans.

But it doesn't end the matter. It basically guarantees there will be more cases.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
The latest ruling struck down appeals from Virginia, Utah, Oklahoma, Indiana and Wisconsin against rulings which struck down their laws forbidding homosexual marriages. Those States are are now issuing marriage licenses and the grand total of States in which homosexual marriages are now legal stands at 30.
What's fascinating about this is that there's been no mouth-foaming over this from the right.

The debate's over.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ussusimiel wrote:

Is this the result that pro-SSM people wanted?

u.


Yes, because now people in those States may marry even if they are of the same gender.

As Vraith notes, the States which still have bans are looking at the language of their bans so that they may keep their bans in effect. The States which had their bans struck down are probably trying to figure out how to re-word their bans in order to reenact them.

There are always more court cases because some people never quit trying.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only winners in this issue are the Divorce Lawyers.

Next on the agenda will be making the term marriage into a full business contract. Or condensing it into a number of four year business dealing subject to renews and fees.

Why not.. if marriage has been redefined then don't be so old fashion right now and accept what will devolve from it.

The divorce lawyers will fight against it.. It removes them from the equation.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
The latest ruling struck down appeals from Virginia, Utah, Oklahoma, Indiana and Wisconsin against rulings which struck down their laws forbidding homosexual marriages. Those States are are now issuing marriage licenses and the grand total of States in which homosexual marriages are now legal stands at 30.
What's fascinating about this is that there's been no mouth-foaming over this from the right.

The debate's over.


I did notice the near-total silence on this...especially compared to previous events. The only "big" name I've heard really go after it was Ted Cruz.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Election season.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Election season.
No question.

But it may also be that the GOP has figured out that social issues are losers for them.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:
wayfriend wrote:
Election season.
No question.

But it may also be that the GOP has figured out that social issues are losers for them.

Yup. Or this one is, at least. I saw on WaPo yesterday that GOP advisers are telling candidates not to run on SSM. I'm thinking the fight is over.

OTOH, the governor of Kansas (whose state falls in one of the circuits whose case the Supremes turned down) says they're still going to fight SSM in his state. I guess he didn't get the memo. Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard rumors that Charleston County SC is going to issue marriage liscences to same sex couples. Greenville County is steadfastly refusing to do so.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kennedy has stayed the thing at least as it applies to one state...apparently cuz the court that governs that district used a higher level of scrutiny than the "rational basis" of all the other decisions.
[[for those unfamiliar with u.s. courts...the higher the level of scrutiny, the harder it is for the GOV't to defend. So in this case since the state had a ban, Kennedy is saying "maybe the court was too hard on the Gov't.]]
Some think this might create the conflict between different courts that the Supremes like to see in many cases before taking them up...though I think? it is already too late to make it this session??

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the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aliantha wrote:
Cail wrote:
wayfriend wrote:
Election season.
No question.

But it may also be that the GOP has figured out that social issues are losers for them.

Yup. Or this one is, at least. I saw on WaPo yesterday that GOP advisers are telling candidates not to run on SSM. I'm thinking the fight is over.

That doesn't seem likely, if you consider how badly the Christian Right wants this. I think it's set aside temporarily while the GOP wants to win seats. Like Immigration Reform, the GOP position depends on how close to the election it is.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now Idaho and Nevada have had their bans struck down by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. This brings the grand total to 32 States, nearly a 50% increase over where things stood only last week.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
aliantha wrote:
Cail wrote:
wayfriend wrote:
Election season.
No question.

But it may also be that the GOP has figured out that social issues are losers for them.

Yup. Or this one is, at least. I saw on WaPo yesterday that GOP advisers are telling candidates not to run on SSM. I'm thinking the fight is over.

That doesn't seem likely, if you consider how badly the Christian Right wants this. I think it's set aside temporarily while the GOP wants to win seats. Like Immigration Reform, the GOP position depends on how close to the election it is.
No secret. That's the same reason the Democrats aren't screaming for a Congressional vote on fighting ISIL.

But the Christian Right has been steadily losing its chokehold on the GOP as people realize that they're losing elections over issues that are only hot-buttons to the extreme sides.

The GOP may have finally realized that they need to shut up on these wedge issues, as they only mobilize a very small faction of their party, while they whip up all sorts of mobilization from the Democrats.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

we on the right can only hope the gop has given up this fight. maybe they would be better served coming up with some jobs programs and an alternative to Obama care.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An upcoming [url=america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/11/2/jerusalem-us-passport.html]passport-related case[/url] that also touches on the Israel/Palestine situation.

Quote:


A Supreme Court case involving a 12-year-old Israeli boy has put the United States in a difficult position as it seeks to project credibility as a neutral peacemaker between Israelis and Palestinians.

On Monday, the nine justices will consider whether the administration of President Barack Obama must follow a law enacted by Congress that allows U.S. citizens born in Jerusalem to have Israel listed as their birthplace on passports.

The U.S. has refused to enforce the law ever since it was enacted in 2002, and the legal question at hand is whether or not following the law would infringe on the president's exclusive right to recognize foreign nations.

The case was prompted by Ari and Naomi Zivotofsky, parents of Jerusalem-born U.S. citizen Menachem Zivotofsky. They sued in 2003 on behalf of their then-baby son for his place of birth to be listed as "Israel" instead of "Jerusalem" on his passport. The legal fight has bounced around the U.S. court system for a decade — an odyssey that included a previous trip to the Supreme Court that led to a ruling in 2012 on a more technical procedural issue.

The Obama administration fears that allowing the passport to state "Israel" could be interpreted as an endorsement of the country's hotly disputed sovereignty claims over Jerusalem.

While the U.S. and international community recognize East Jerusalem as occupied Palestinian territory that Palestinians want to make the capital of their future state, Israel claims the entire city as its "eternal, undivided capital."

Negotiations over the status of Jerusalem have long been seen as key to any potential peace settlement between Israelis and Palestinians.


Presumably, if "Israel" gets put as the boy's birthplace then somehow this will constitute official recognition of Jerusalem as Israeli territory and this makes the government very worried. Note, though, that this isn't an Obama thing because the case has been going on for 10 years--the Bush Administration didn't want to make a decision on it, either.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[url=reason.com/blog/2014/11/13/clarence-thomas-condemns-supreme-court-f]Clarence Thomas Rebukes Supreme Court for Refusing to Hear Gay Marriage Cases[/url]
Quote:
On Thursday the U.S. Supreme Court declined to halt a ruling by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit which had overturned an Arizona constitutional amendment banning bail for undocumented immigrants charged with serious crimes. As a result, the Arizona amendment is now invalid and cannot be enforced by the state, though state officials may still try to get the Supreme Court to hear their appeal. But even with an appeal pending, the amendment has no force.

What's especially notable about this action by the Supreme Court is that Justice Clarence Thomas, joined by Justice Antonin Scalia, used the opportunity to rebuke his fellow justices for their refusal last month to hear any new gay marriage cases. Here is what Thomas had to say in today's denial of application for stay:

I join my colleagues in denying this application only because there appears to be no "reasonable probability that four Justices will consider the issue sufficiently meritorious to grant certiorari." That is unfortunate.

We have recognized a strong presumption in favor of granting writs of certiorari to review decisions of lower courts holding federal statutes unconstitutional. States deserve no less consideration.... Indeed, we often review decisions striking down state laws, even in the absence of a disagreement among lower courts. But for reason that escape me, we have not done so with any consistency, especially in recent months. [Citations omitted.]


Thomas then cites four cases where the lower federal courts invalidated state bans on gay marriage (in Oklahoma, Utah, Virginia, and Wisconsin, respectively), yet the Supreme Court refused to hear any of the appeals arising from any of those judicial invalidations. Those states, Thomas plainly suggests, deserve to have their appeals heard in full by a fully attentive Supreme Court.

This is quite a statement from Justice Thomas. Not only has he castigated his fellow justices for lacking a coherent judicial approach, he has also clearly signaled his own (and Scalia's) willingness to rule on the constitutional merits of this issue. In other words, Clarence Thomas threw down the gauntlet and publicly challenged the Court to take up a gay marriage case. We’ll see if the other justices pick it up.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that might support your SSM statement up-thread
Cail wrote:
The debate's over.


It only requires 4 justices to decide to hear a case, so, on SSM, at least the swing, and one "true" conservative had to join the lib side in refusing to hear 4 different appeals, unless I've forgotten how to add and subtract.

Of course, I think they will hear on the issue [they almost have to] eventually. And Thomas is head-on type enough to think yea, he put this out there on purpose, to try and get action as the writer indicated.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose I should sticky this thread since Supreme Court cases can have significant impact. Not all their cases, mind you, because some of them are relatively minor in nature, but some anticipated decisions will have extreme significance.

Walker v Texas Div., Sons of Confederate Veterans is fairly interesting--the State of Texas may disallow Confederate flags on officially-accepted license plates. Your individual right to Free Speech means you may have as many Confederate flags on your vehicle as you like but the State does not have to display that flag. I agree. We shouldn't try to hide or forget about the Confederate flag--the Civil War happened and it needs to be studied in its entirety as a matter of historical fact--but that doesn't mean it has to have official recognition.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed. And I saw in my newsfeed today that [url=thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/245695-supreme-court-sides-with-raisin-farmers-in-just-compensation-case] Horne v. the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the Raisin case, has been settled.[/url] The state cannot take raisins without compensation. They limited it to just raisins, but it will call into question many such "keeping prices stable" grabs that are done by policy. I certainly agree with their outcome. I have figs in my back yard, and I don't sell them. But if I did, I can't imagine being told that I can only sell 15, and the rest go to the government to export or give away in school lunches. Granted, under their program I would get $2 a fig ($30), but at 15 cents a fig, I have 250 of them so I'd make $37.50 which is more money (and it's not like I'm going to just grow 15 figs on a tree). This one was a good call.
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