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Iraq
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As of 2/19/06, how would you rate the Iraq War and its aftermath?
Total failure in all respects
43%
 43%  [ 36 ]
Terrible in terms of lives lost and a set back for U.S.-Middle East relations
28%
 28%  [ 23 ]
A major setback on the WOT, but democracy in Iraq at least
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Difficulties were expected yet it probably had to happen
12%
 12%  [ 10 ]
Not too badly, although our intel networks must improve
2%
 2%  [ 2 ]
Think it has gone relatively well
6%
 6%  [ 5 ]
A complete success so far
2%
 2%  [ 2 ]
I don't care as long as I'm safe
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
I'm lost, where is the Mallory thread?
3%
 3%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 82

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Cail
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's great up until the colonies get educated and start becoming economically powerful. Then, not so much.
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Rawedge Rim
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:
It's great up until the colonies get educated and start becoming economically powerful. Then, not so much.


Even the Romans didn't last forever, nor will we, but the point was that "if" we are going to expend the lives and treasure to "conquer" a country and dispose the government, then why leave before ensuring that we leave a government both friendly to us, and a country in better shape than when we left it. And why not get "all in" instead of "minimal bootprint" like we do now?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or, you know, we could just leave them alone.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Hashi Lebwohl
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rawedge Rim wrote:

Even the Romans didn't last forever, nor will we, but the point was that "if" we are going to expend the lives and treasure to "conquer" a country and dispose the government, then why leave before ensuring that we leave a government both friendly to us, and a country in better shape than when we left it. And why not get "all in" instead of "minimal bootprint" like we do now?


This logic makes perfect sense. If you are going to attack a country and topple its government, then you might as well own the country, making it yours, and reap the benefits while you can. History may paint you as a blackhearted devil for conquering someone else but your control did lead to an increase in literacy, scientific pursuit, medical care, social advancements, etc.

My advice is what Cail also advises--leave them alone.

It is this policy of "minimal footprint" that RR mentions which is the worst possible choice. That "minimal footprint" causes maximum disturbance to the country as half the people want you there while the other half don't and you don't have enough boots on the ground to quell the violence. Either get up and walk away, leaving them to their own choices, or go all in and fully commit yourself.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:
Or, you know, we could just leave them alone.


Occasionally it becomes necessary to kick the living crap out of some country that just doesn't see the benefits of leaving us the hell alone. And if we are going to do that, I don't see the point of leaving a country in the same political position it was in before we expended lives and money on them.
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Cail
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rawedge Rim wrote:
Cail wrote:
Or, you know, we could just leave them alone.


Occasionally it becomes necessary to kick the living crap out of some country that just doesn't see the benefits of leaving us the hell alone. And if we are going to do that, I don't see the point of leaving a country in the same political position it was in before we expended lives and money on them.
What exactly did Iraq do to us again?
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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Rawedge Rim
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:
Rawedge Rim wrote:
Cail wrote:
Or, you know, we could just leave them alone.


Occasionally it becomes necessary to kick the living crap out of some country that just doesn't see the benefits of leaving us the hell alone. And if we are going to do that, I don't see the point of leaving a country in the same political position it was in before we expended lives and money on them.
What exactly did Iraq do to us again?


wasn't speaking about any particular nation, nor did you mention one in the statement I replied to.
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Cail
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rawedge Rim wrote:
Cail wrote:
Rawedge Rim wrote:
Cail wrote:
Or, you know, we could just leave them alone.


Occasionally it becomes necessary to kick the living crap out of some country that just doesn't see the benefits of leaving us the hell alone. And if we are going to do that, I don't see the point of leaving a country in the same political position it was in before we expended lives and money on them.
What exactly did Iraq do to us again?


wasn't speaking about any particular nation, nor did you mention one in the statement I replied to.
You did notice that the thread is titled "Iraq", right?

I've made my position on warfare crystal clear.....Don't ever start a fight. If someone starts a fight with you, finish it, and finish it quickly. Kill everyone until there's either no one left to kill or until they unconditionally surrender. Conquering a nation means it belongs to you, period. You can keep it or not, your choice.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
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