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Not exactly engaging material Chap 1 and 2
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Aleksandr
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: So far, the first two chapters of Fatal Revenant have been filled with "talking heads". Zero action. No scenes - just summation.


Read the first two chapters of WGW. Same thing. No real action (unless you count Linden pacifying the Nicor, offstage), just talk. But important talk: Honningscrave is headed for a breakdown due to his brother's death, Findail gives some answers (but not enough); Linden gives the Quest a new purpose, stopping the Clave. Kind of the same thing here: There's a deep rift of distrust between Linden and TC; Esmer gives us some answers; Esmer defines Linden's main purpose for the rest of the book (I'm guessing there of course)
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

/grabs and shakes Avatar..

Oh man fellow.. Sad Confused

Here.. after darn near twenty years we have another Covenant Chronicles. Good ole Tolkien was long gone when his books came to popularity. We have a living breathing willing to meet with people author, SRD!

How can anybody lose the interest, these novels have brought? The first ones told us about the Land. It's struggles and triumps. The second one was the same but played in a different light. We we affronted by the change! What happened to the Land we knew. How dare he (SRD) make the place a wasteland. We read the quest and the rebirth of the Land.
And we approved.

Now we have a new adventure. The Land has changed again. The outcome looks dim. And we don't know what will happen.

I read the first chroicles when I was about 25. Nobody had come up with an entire world except for Tolkien. It was refreshing to read and Donnelson was praised for the works. I can read the last books with the same enthusiasm as I did with the first.

Maybe in 50 odd years, some person may pick up the book and read them in reverse order. They may be enthralled by the Land from the last books, that it will encouraged them to read the second and then the first.
This can be the genius of SRD.

So I look forward to the remainers of the Last Chronicles with an opened mind and a contented heart.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the first chapter was better than the second. The incessant whining SRD allows his characters to do at times, tends to become overkill.

I get the point already. Linden is upset.

I did enjoy the peeks/hints into what is going on and by whom.

The chapters did make me want to read more, so they were successful in that vein.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ur Dead wrote:
/grabs and shakes Avatar..

Oh man fellow.. Sad Confused


LOL Oh, I'm not losing interest...I'll read them all gladly, grateful to have another chance to revisit a world that we thought finished and stagnant.

I just want it to get a lot better. As Aleksandr said, so far nothing much has happened. In fact, the first 2 chapters blend so seamlessly with the end of Runes, I'm not sure without looking where one lets off and the other begins.

Perhaps that's part of it...that it still feels like a Runes hangover. The earlier books were distinct. The quest in LFB, the war in TIW, etc. Runes didn't have that clear end that even TWL and TOT had, despite the 2nd Chrons being more...continuous...than the first.

--A
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing much has happened?!?! Why, EVERYTHING has happened!!! (okay, not really "everything" - but a lot more than it seems!)

But you won't understand that until the end. For example:

HARRY POTTER 7 SPOILERS!!!!
Spoiler:
Who would have guessed that Harry getting his father's cloak back from Dumbledore in the first book had any deeper meaning? And who could possibly have read the "Silver Doe" chapter and not felt like it was an entirely unlikely situation? I still don't think that it was explained in enough detail for the average reader (enough dots to see what the picture was, but only a few actually connected), but it just made so much sense at the end - where at the time it was like, "geez, how corney was *that*?" <grin>


SHEESH! I can't take it any more! 49 more days until it comes out, and then a couple more days ("years" for Jay ... heh heh heh heh) before people finish reading it. I'm gonna burst if I have to wait that long before chatting with anyone about it! (the fix I had with Jenn is wearing off - it was too long ago).

Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
("years" for Jay ... heh heh heh heh)


Razz Razz Razz

-jay
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John - I'm curious, why has so much of FR been released early?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm guessing the answer is alcohol related.-jay
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said, Romeo!


kevinswatch wrote:
I'm guessing the answer is alcohol related.-jay


Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
John - I'm curious, why has so much of FR been released early?


No reason that I'm aware of other than to give a good preview.

Seareach: Doesn't it just kill you to read all these posts and not be able to say anything? Ahhhh!!!! Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Romeo wrote:
Seareach: Doesn't it just kill you to read all these posts and not be able to say anything? Ahhhh!!!! Smile


I'm certainly looking forward to my tongue recovering (that's a reference to me biting my tongue...thought I should clarify that so there's no misunderstandings! Big Grin)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I think that ALOT was revealed in ch. 2...mention of the EarthBlood and so forth...i love the brief "history" lesson of the Viles. Of course, this is the sort of thing I drink in. I LOVE backstory!!! What makes the backstory really fantastic in all the Chrons, is that it is all intrepretation of the characters who tell it. So, you are never really sure how much of it is true.

Just how reliable is Esmer????

I'll probably have it all read within a couple of days after I get it. Can't wait!!!! Very Happy Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of good points have been made here.

EL, I agree: I don't mind Linden at all.
Seareach: I don't think Linden--or any of SRD's characters--whine. I find their suffering tragic and endearing. Guys, if a pretty, intelligent woman was attracted to you, and confided in you that she killed her mother and witnessed her father's suicide, would any of you tell her to shut up and quit whining? Or would you give a shoulder to cry on (granted, you'd have to not be freaked out about the whole "killing her mother" thing . . . ok, probably not the best example Smile ).

On the plot device issue: Findail had info that he could have revealed, and so did the Elohim, Covenant's dead, etc. But this info wasn't withheld because the character was (conveniently) bound by a need to help and harm. No, these characters didn't reveal info because doing so would have altered the outcome, changing TC's and Linden's actions. Amok was clearly a plot device, but he was never intended to be a real character. He was an artifact even within SRD's fantasy world.

I do still have faith in Donaldson, and I too hold onto the Gap example of his series getting dramatically better in the 2nd book.

kevinswatch wrote:
I really do think that what the Last Chronicles desperately needs is a Lord Mhoram, a Foamfollower, or a Pitchwife. One incredibly awesome character to give the Chronicles some life. I just haven't felt that from anyone so far.


Best point of the thread. Hell, best point I've seen about Runes yet. This is what is missing. None of the characters are engaging yet. Stave is finally coming along. But none of the other new characters have grabbed me at all. It's not just that they lack any endearing qualities, but they also don't do very much. They are all extremely underdeveloped and 2 dimensional. All the Ramen are disposable. Liand is a pale shadow of Sunder. Esmer is cool--but gimmicky. Mahdoubt is little more than patches, eye color, and a unique speech pattern (granted, not much screen time yet).

As much as I like Linden, she can't carry this thing on her own. We've got to have some reasons to care about these characters other than the fact they inhabit the Land.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malik23 wrote:
Seareach: I don't think Linden--or any of SRD's characters--whine. I find their suffering tragic and endearing. Guys, if a pretty, intelligent woman was attracted to you, and confided in you that she killed her mother and witnessed her father's suicide, would any of you tell her to shut up and quit whining? Or would you give a shoulder to cry on (granted, you'd have to not be freaked out about the whole "killing her mother" thing . . . ok, probably not the best example Smile ).


Malik! A voice of reason! I think I shall hug you now! Big Grin

But seriously: I agree. "Tragic and endearing". Well said!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Malik, good post. I've said often that my biggest problem with Linden is that she isn't Thomas Covenant. It is Covenant that I love. Linden has always seemed like a usurper.

Jay's point about lack of a new, solid character isn't lost on me, but I do believe that Stave fits that definition already. He may turn out to be the best Haruchai we've ever met.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
Yeah, Malik, good post. I've said often that my biggest problem with Linden is that she isn't Thomas Covenant. It is Covenant that I love. Linden has always seemed like a usurper.

Jay's point about lack of a new, solid character isn't lost on me, but I do believe that Stave fits that definition already. He may turn out to be the best Haruchai we've ever met.


A Haruchai with common sense, without that overly developed, fanatical sense of... being a Haruchai?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:24 am    Post subject: Not exactly engaging material Chap 1 and 2 Reply with quote

Quote:
mention of the EarthBlood and so forth


I wonder if Melenkurion Skyweir is the only source of the Earthblood ? I dont mind if Linden's travels take her that way; it was one of my very fave locales in the first chrons ...

Quote:
Jay's point about lack of a new, solid character isn't lost on me, but I do believe that Stave fits that definition already. He may turn out to be the best Haruchai we've ever met.


Stave's certainly the most talkative Haruchai we've ever met !

Despite criticisms of 'gimmicky'-ness levelled at Esmer, in my eyes he's been a compelling character so far - his frustration at his own nature, his combination of sarcasm and contrition and the physical effect he has on Linden's senses - good stuff ! Even the descriptions of his cymar tickle me ..
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malik23 wrote:
None of the characters are engaging yet. Stave is finally coming along. But none of the other new characters have grabbed me at all. It's not just that they lack any endearing qualities, but they also don't do very much. They are all extremely underdeveloped and 2 dimensional. All the Ramen are disposable. Liand is a pale shadow of Sunder. Esmer is cool--but gimmicky. Mahdoubt is little more than patches, eye color, and a unique speech pattern (granted, not much screen time yet).


Yeah, I really agree with that. This is probably the main reason why I didn't really like Runes. I need awesome characters. Mhoram, Bannor, Foamfollower, Pitchwife, First of the Search, Honninscrave, Cail, etc. Gimme some of that action. Sadly, most of the characters in Runes were pretty boring and 2-D.

I agree that out of all of them, Stave has the most potenial. But he still has a ways to go. Hopefully in the rest of the books Stave takes over a little more.-jay
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
John - I'm curious, why has so much of FR been released early?


Having read FR, I thought the first 2 chapters probably belonged with RotE anyway, as the FR story doesn't really begin until chapter 3.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, thanks Native, that makes sense.
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