Kevin's Watch Forum Index
 HomeHome   MemberlistMemberlist   RegisterRegister   SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   FAQFAQ   StatisticsStatistics  SudokuSudoku   Phoogle MapPhoogle Map 
 AlbumAlbum StoresStores   StoresItems Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Discussion of entire novel: SPOILER WARNING
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant -> Fatal Revenant
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ur Dead
The Gap Into Spam

Male
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 2290

Thanks: 6
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts


4547 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Translation1 Diamondraught1 Lord's Staff


PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do have a question.


Spoiler:
When Linden drank the Earthblood she said she wanted to know the Truth.
Well it seeems that she suddenly sees TC (Roger) and the Jermiah (the croyel) in their true forms.

Will this command be perment? That she will be able to see all things as they really are? The PoC is a very exacting command and effect.



On a side note:

Spoiler:
When the battle began ( total mixed and exciting feeling on this ) Linden used the 7 words of power and had the Staff dipped into the Earthblood.
All I could envision was two thoughts: My time in grade school(cacholic) and the FPS game Quake. As Linden persuded those two all I could see was a PO'ed nun with a BFR (Big Fracking Ruler) going after two naughty boys to discipline them.

Also maybe that was the event that split the Skyweir and made Rivenrock
.
_________________
What's this silver looking ring doing on my finger?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Phoogle Map
Aranion
Stonedownor


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 30

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: Dayton, Ohio
55 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, no spoiler tags since it's in the thread name...


You were warned!


A Gunslinger, your guess on Anele's role sounds like a very good one, and has a nice organic fit with the story. However, I'm not sure. I have a hard time seeing the Land being Jordanesque in that it ends up like it begun - with Foul imprisoned and people discovering Earthpower all over again. Plus, FR was seeded with apocalyptic and end-of-everything hints and wording.

Ur Dead, I'm pretty sure that was the event that created Rivenrock. Don't have the book with me to check, but I thought it was implied if not directly said.
_________________
"There is nothing beautiful or sweet or great in life that is not mysterious."

--Francois Rene de Chateaubriand
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Billy G.
Linden's Choice

Male
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 212

Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Times in 1 Posts

Location: Livonia, MI
300 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a good thing that Linden heeded Esmer's admonition to drink of the Earthblood first.

Wouldn't the fake TC have unmade everything in the future, in Berek's time, by getting the PofC first???
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Phoogle Map
dlbpharmd
Lord

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 14346

Thanks: 5
Thanked 53 Times in 52 Posts

Location: Jacksboro, TN.
15135 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 2007 Watcher of the Year1 2007 Watchies


PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SickTwistedFreak wrote:
It's a good thing that Linden heeded Esmer's admonition to drink of the Earthblood first.

Wouldn't the fake TC have unmade everything in the future, in Berek's time, by getting the PofC first???


I think it was the Mahdoubt who said that Roger would've roused the Worm.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Mortice Root
Bloodguard

Male
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 980

Thanks: 5
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts

Location: Wisconsin
1067 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Starmaster1 Bright Beauty1 Captains Fancy


PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, going with the general consensus here... no spoiler tags.

I loved this book! I thought the entire thing was outstanding, and, just on a first read basis, I'm inclined to agree with SRD that this was one of his better books.

I really liked Roger's reveal, and I don't just mean under Skywier. I thought that the whole first half of the novel was brilliant, and found myself, just like Linden, oscillating back and forth between thinking TC was slightly "off" to thinking there was a serious problem. And I love the fact that it just didn't simply become more obvious that it was Roger as time went on. Every moment that was so unlike TC, was followed by something that could have been. Just perfect. And the line "She was Linden Avery, and did not choose to be defeated." was right up there for me with "Nom." from WGW as far as spine tingling goes.

The other things that really jumped out for me was the introduction with the Harrow (spooky as hell Cool ) and the confrontation with the Mahdoubt. Also the reveal of the Insequent/Haruchai history. It just seemed to fit perfectly into the backstory, filling a gap that I never even knew was there.

All in all, a great book, and I can't wait to read it again. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae


Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 18567

Thanks: 100
Thanked 97 Times in 93 Posts


10921 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Foul Duck1 Lord Mhoram's Victory1 2011 Watchies


PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aranion wrote:
"Sons" may be my new favorite chapter of all the Covenent books (though "Soothtell" will be hard to displace).
I'm still going with The Spoiled Plains, Lord Mhoram's Victory (nearly as much for Drinny as Mhoram. Very Happy), The Search, and Coercri. (But let's not start debating it!! :mrgreen Laughing)


Oh, something I forgot! I really liked seeing the Giants do their caamora in FR! Any caamora we've seen in the past was unplanned. Even undesired, but necessary. Hell, we've even heard about unsuccessful. But this one is likely somewhat typical. A formal grieving ritual. Kinda cool. Very Happy
_________________
We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD

All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
MrKABC
The Gap Into Spam


Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 1086

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: Behind the Golden EIB Microphone
168 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Rukh


PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just finished the book!!! The three years to the next one is going to be a long wait. Grrrr...

All I can say about FR is...

WOW!!! What a ride! This book is absolutely AMAZING.

I was glad to see the ROTE cliffhanger resolved. I must admit I was blown away at the true identity of the phony Covenant. The first half of the book kept me guessing. Also, I never anticipated Linden using the Power of Command for such a "trivial" matter as exposing Covenant and Jeremiah's true identities. I guess I expected something more grandiose. However, at least Linden didn't cause the damage that Elena did!

I never foresaw the inclusion of the Insequent - they fit right in to the grand scheme of things!

The battle of First Woodhelven was the high point of the book IMO! SRD kept piling it on and on and on!! Whew! What a rush!!!

It was good to finally see the skurj and understand more about the Land's enemies. It was even better to see familiar characters like Caerroil Wildwood, Berek Hearthhew, sandgorgons, Damelon Giantfriend, Infelice, and even the Viles. Of course, seeing Giants again was awesome!

Now the downside: Anele is annoying and useless. I would have shoved the Staff of Law up his *** and left him by the side of the road somewhere. Also, Linden's insistence upon rescuing Jeremiah at all costs got to be grating. When she would repeatedly emote "Lord Foul has my son" I would think, "So what? Screw him, he's not THAT important!"

What is also amazing to me is that the Staff of Law doesn't appear to be all that powerful - not at all like it was made out to be in the first two Chronicles. The Staff can't defeat any of Linden's enemies. Even the Harrow laughs at the Staff and calls it a "stick" and mocks its abilities. Does the new Staff just suck? Was the original Staff better? Hard to tell because all the original Staff ever did was be lost.

OK, I am rambling now. Bottom line is that FR totally ROCKED. Welcome back SRD!!! You've turned out a winner.
_________________
"This is the grace that has been given to you - to bear what must be borne."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
dlbpharmd
Lord

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 14346

Thanks: 5
Thanked 53 Times in 52 Posts

Location: Jacksboro, TN.
15135 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 2007 Watcher of the Year1 2007 Watchies


PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What is also amazing to me is that the Staff of Law doesn't appear to be all that powerful - not at all like it was made out to be in the first two Chronicles. The Staff can't defeat any of Linden's enemies. Even the Harrow laughs at the Staff and calls it a "stick" and mocks its abilities. Does the new Staff just suck? Was the original Staff better? Hard to tell because all the original Staff ever did was be lost.


Good point, although it's seemed to me that we're seeing Linden get far more power from the Staff than Elena ever did. I think we have to remember that Kevin's Dirt limits the Staff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Seareach
A sailor went to...

FemaleRanyhyn
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 5850

Thanks: 6
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts


8927 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Caamora1 2007 Watchies1 Coercri


PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
Quote:
What is also amazing to me is that the Staff of Law doesn't appear to be all that powerful - not at all like it was made out to be in the first two Chronicles. The Staff can't defeat any of Linden's enemies. Even the Harrow laughs at the Staff and calls it a "stick" and mocks its abilities. Does the new Staff just suck? Was the original Staff better? Hard to tell because all the original Staff ever did was be lost.


Good point, although it's seemed to me that we're seeing Linden get far more power from the Staff than Elena ever did. I think we have to remember that Kevin's Dirt limits the Staff.


And I think we have to keep in mind that Linden is inhibited by her self doubt.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Billy G.
Linden's Choice

Male
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 212

Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Times in 1 Posts

Location: Livonia, MI
300 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was great that the Forestal could modify the new Staff, by giving it the runes. Has SRD ever discussed the origin of the Forestals? By altering the theurgy of the Staff, could his power be equal or greater than the combined lore of the Elohim and the (Viles+Demondim+ur-Viles?)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Phoogle Map
mortem
Stonedownor


Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 28

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


24 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just finished this last night. Damn, that was worth the three year wait (but sad that I have to wait another three!).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dlbpharmd
Lord

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 14346

Thanks: 5
Thanked 53 Times in 52 Posts

Location: Jacksboro, TN.
15135 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 2007 Watcher of the Year1 2007 Watchies


PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SickTwistedFreak wrote:
I thought it was great that the Forestal could modify the new Staff, by giving it the runes. Has SRD ever discussed the origin of the Forestals? By altering the theurgy of the Staff, could his power be equal or greater than the combined lore of the Elohim and the (Viles+Demondim+ur-Viles?)


We know nothing more than what we've been told about the Forestals - the One Forest created them from the knowledge learned from the Appointed Elohim. It seems to me that a Forestal would be as powerful as an Elohim.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Aranion
Stonedownor


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 30

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: Dayton, Ohio
55 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
It seems to me that a Forestal would be as powerful as an Elohim.


And far, far cooler. Wink Have always loved the Forestals, and love CW's cameo in TIW. And despite the many inaccuracies, I love Sweet's cover of that book.
_________________
"There is nothing beautiful or sweet or great in life that is not mysterious."

--Francois Rene de Chateaubriand
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Damelon
Lord


Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 8090

Thanks: 11
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

Location: Illinois
2283 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of Linden's Army1 Rivenrock1 Coercri


PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SickTwistedFreak wrote:
Has SRD ever discussed the origin of the Forestals? By altering the theurgy of the Staff, could his power be equal or greater than the combined lore of the Elohim and the (Viles+Demondim+ur-Viles?)


I believe an Elohim merged with the One Forest, creating a consciousness there that created the Colossus and the Forestals.
_________________
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. ~ Carl Sagan

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Aranion
Stonedownor


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 30

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: Dayton, Ohio
55 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damelon wrote:
I believe an Elohim merged with the One Forest, creating a consciousness there that created the Colossus and the Forestals.


This is correct. The Appointed Elohim was absorbed/dismantled/etc. by the One Forest, and the trees used the knowledge of Earthpower and power in general to create the Forestals.

I got a thrill just reading about a time when ALL of the forests in the Land had a Forestal, not just GD.
_________________
"There is nothing beautiful or sweet or great in life that is not mysterious."

--Francois Rene de Chateaubriand
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dlbpharmd
Lord

MaleRanyhyn
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 14346

Thanks: 5
Thanked 53 Times in 52 Posts

Location: Jacksboro, TN.
15135 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Member of THOOLAH1 2007 Watcher of the Year1 2007 Watchies


PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, that's only partly correct. The Elohim sang the trees into knowledge of themselves and of their collective power; the trees then used that power to bind the Elohim into the Colossus.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Phoogle Map
Aleksandr
Giantfriend


Joined: 13 Oct 2004
Posts: 320

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: Florida
465 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: It seems to me that a Forestal would be as powerful as an Elohim.


But more limited since they don't seem to have any power at all outside their forests. And in the end they pass away with the forests.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Aranion
Stonedownor


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 30

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: Dayton, Ohio
55 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:


PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
Sorry, that's only partly correct. The Elohim sang the trees into knowledge of themselves and of their collective power; the trees then used that power to bind the Elohim into the Colossus.


I stand corrected. dlb is correct, of course; it's also much more Donaldsonian to have the Elohim awaken the trees only to have the trees in turn "undo" or significantly transform their awakener.
_________________
"There is nothing beautiful or sweet or great in life that is not mysterious."

--Francois Rene de Chateaubriand
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MrKABC
The Gap Into Spam


Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 1086

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Location: Behind the Golden EIB Microphone
168 White Gold Dollars
Tokens
HP

User Items:
1 Rukh


PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlbpharmd wrote:
Quote:
What is also amazing to me is that the Staff of Law doesn't appear to be all that powerful - not at all like it was made out to be in the first two Chronicles. The Staff can't defeat any of Linden's enemies. Even the Harrow laughs at the Staff and calls it a "stick" and mocks its abilities. Does the new Staff just suck? Was the original Staff better? Hard to tell because all the original Staff ever did was be lost.


Good point, although it's seemed to me that we're seeing Linden get far more power from the Staff than Elena ever did. I think we have to remember that Kevin's Dirt limits the Staff.


Elena's excuse was that the Lords hadn't mastered Kevin's Wards and didn't know many of the uses of the Staff. However, don't discount Elena's running of Lord Foul's preternatural winter (for the entire Land no less) as well as turning the moon green, and supporting samadhi Satansfist's army, all at the same time.

That's some hardcore stuff for the original Staff, tasks IMO that haven't been matched yet by the new Staff.

Lord Foul most likely taught her how to do those things. Elena never demonstrated that kind of power before. Of course, she did hold her own against Kevin for several hours.
_________________
"This is the grace that has been given to you - to bear what must be borne."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Kevin's Watch Forum Index -> The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant -> Fatal Revenant All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by Earthpower © Kevin's Watch