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Pantheon - Discussions on the Future
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Xar
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:48 pm    Post subject: Pantheon - Discussions on the Future Reply with quote

Well, given that there's been a lot of discussion in the Comments thread about what players would like to see or not in P4 - though I should stress that P3 isn't over yet and depending on the players, it might go on for quite some more time, after all - I thought that this kind of discussion should be separated from the thread which is dedicated solely to comments about the current incarnation of the game. So, here it is - feel free to discuss, hypothesize and propose things for the future P4 (whenever that may come) in this specific thread Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok.... I bet the appearance of this thread is giving Menolly fits of anxiety!! Wink Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's what I thought as well when I made it, but on the other hand at least this way we can separate the comments about P3 from people discussing the hypothetical P4... not to mention that, when the time comes to wrap up P3 and prepare P4, it's easier to look at players' suggestions for improvements if they're collected in a single thread rather than to sift through over 200 pages of general comments...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing that probably needs to be looked at is the Court and House systems. Though the game would have gone differently without the pre-made collaborations between a few gods in the Courts at the start, the system as a whole hasn't seemed to have much impact, and seems to be fallnig apart as the game progresses - which can be seen in the fact that the Sunset Court has been left with only two members, despite starting out as the larger Court (iirc).

The Houses I realise play a background part in how the various gods growth is worked out, but don't really seem to play any noticable role in the public part of the game.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Murrin. The courts (and houses) don't seem to have a broad impact in-game. Perhaps a way to more broadly support and encourage ad hoc alliances that either might be secret or public (like Eclipse).
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I won't play P4 unless P3 gets a good, long run. P1 and P2 ended way prematurely, because too many people were bored already. We're supposed to be deities, for crying out loud. Put in the effort. I'm annoyed as hell about not being able to develop ideas I have, which can take time. Playing the third generation of a family of deities has helped, letting me continue with some things. But still, I'm not going to hope for that again in P4. Let's have a little staying power.

Eventually, yeah, P3 will end. IMO, P4 should not be on Eiran. New players are annoyed that old players know what's what, and maybe where to find cool stuff. At least we know what cool stuff might exist. Personally, I'd like to not try to find that cool stuff, and not be able to, or not have it work as well as it should. A brand new world would be fun to explore.

Houses don't seem to have any noticable drawback, so I don't care one way or another about them. Courts are annoying in ways. Hence, I'm not in one. However, they do have some interesting aspects. Free DRPs, for one. Laughing The safety of the quasi-alliances, for another. If you are in either Court, you must agree that there's something good about them, eh? Besides, we don't have any idea what kind of plan Xar may have for them. They may have an underlying importance that we aren't at all aware of. I suspect that, if we stick it out, we'll be pleasantly surprised.

And yes, I know what I'll be doing in P4. Laughing I have two domains I'll be pleased to have. I hope at least one of them won't be contested.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devaguhya wrote:
Ok.... I bet the appearance of this thread is giving Menolly fits of anxiety!! Wink Laughing




Xar wrote:
Yes, that's what I thought as well when I made it,

...anch'io ti adoro, Padre di Tutto... More Razz


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also would like to see P4 in a new world.

I would like to do away with the courts. I personally think that the court system restricts game play with forced alliances. Hence, I left the courts.

Fist wrote:
Quote:
I won't play P4 unless P3 gets a good, long run.


Bullshit. You live for these games. Laughing

But I don't think P2 ended prematurely because even Xar said that Eiran couldn't support high level gods, if I remember correctly. Those games ended by majority vote so I think it was fair that they ended.

In addition, I think that it is essential to the game to have an active game thread. Even the bickering is fun and should be encouraged. Its what makes the game. Otherwise, it is just like Montressor said - its just a game of choosing what to do with drps. No interaction does not make a game. So, I vote for more interaction between the players in the game thread (Jove really misses Asta!)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

caamora wrote:
...
Fist wrote:
Quote:
I won't play P4 unless P3 gets a good, long run.


Bullshit. You live for these games. Laughing


Tell us what you really think! Laughing Wink


caamora wrote:
So, I vote for more interaction between the players in the game thread (Jove really misses Asta!)


Perhaps he might visit! Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm I disagree with most of the above!

First of all, for reasons well documented in P2, I think 'official' alliances are a must-have. Therefore, the Courts or some version of, MUST be a part of the game. Sunset may have fallen apart, but for me anyway, Sunrise has added to the game in a big way. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the members of them could be decided by Xar. I don't interact alot on KW with specific members, so Sunrise has (in a good way) forced me to work with players that I wouldn't have contacted, because I just don't know them! If a group of players are close, and join P4, that gives an unfair advantage as they will naturally form alliances perhaps to the detriment of other, more private, players. The Court system balances this out.

As for Houses, I too don't see how it has affected P3. But rather than drop it, I'd be intrigued to see it brought more into play.

Eiran, it HAS to be Eiran. Depending on how P3 turns out, change it beyond recognition if necessary, but keep it EIRAN! Just as an example, I'm re-reading Gemmel's Rigante books at the minute. First book great. Second book, about 20 years after first, great. Third book, you realise at the start that it's set 800 years(!!!!) after second and think it's gonna be crap cos everything has changed. But yes it's different but it's in the same general geography and there are little hints and rules that relate to the first 2 books, and that makes it a completely different story but familiar as well, and that mix of complete change+ some similarity add to the story and it's probably the best of the three books.

And finally, I think so much creativity has gone into Eiran and its people and races and history by Xar and players, that it would be a complete scandal if it was to be consigned to the dustbin of memory-only.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good Post

What ^ he said.

...but then, I love the Twin Worlds as well...

...and they are even older than Eiran.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You assume that Eiran will survive P3 however.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stonemaybe, you make some excellent points and have changed my mind about the courts as well as Eiran. A lot of creativity has gone into it and it should be preserved.

As for the courts, I really like the idea of Xar assigning characters to courts. I agree that it is too easy to gravitate to the same old alliances and have the same old enemies over and over. If Xar assigned people to courts it would force new creativity and forge new alliances.

Great suggestions!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stonemaybe, noone suggested the Courts be scrapped, just that they didn't work his time round, at least not the way Xar intended.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murrin wrote:
Stonemaybe, noone suggested the Courts be scrapped, just that they didn't work his time round, at least not the way Xar intended.


*shrug*

Do any of us know precisely what the AllFather intended with the Courts? I've spoken with one of the two 'setters left, and he has every intention of building that Court up even bigger and stronger than it ever was...

...good luck to him...

...whereas it was suggested to me at one point that perhaps I should quit the Court.

...I don't think so!

Let it play out over the next 100 seasons... Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd very much prefer a fresh start. For one, I'm tired of people asking me questions about this or that in p1 or p2 Wink*cough* Menolly *cough* (just kidding. you're not the only one). But seriously, I think it's time to lay new foundations for new mythologies. It was hard enough to go a turn in p3 without bumping into a p1 or p2 thing, I couldn't imagine trying to avoid it in p4. Also, I'd see nothing wrong with bringing an Eiranic deity or dynasty to a new world.

I think the court system has some advantages, but overall I could take it or leave it. I highly doubt I'd ever play anything but a neutral character. However, if the houses had some kind of extra features, like making it a realm unto itself like Asgard or Hades, I might be tempted. However, I think something like that should also come with limitations affecting how a character can play (no spreading life, love, and joy if you're Hades-based).

What I would like to see is a more concrete, rule-based system for DRP effectiveness and probably a lot less luck involved overall. I believe bad luck should be a mortal's lot. Subjecting gods to it makes them rather less god-like. I can't speak for other players, but I found it disheartening to work very hard and see no results (even bad results are better than no results).
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syl wrote:
What I would like to see is a more concrete, rule-based system for DRP effectiveness and probably a lot less luck involved overall. I believe bad luck should be a mortal's lot. Subjecting gods to it makes them rather less god-like. I can't speak for other players, but I found it disheartening to work very hard and see no results (even bad results are better than no results).


Words outta my mind.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syl wrote:
For one, I'm tired of people asking me questions about this or that in p1 or p2 Wink*cough* Menolly *cough* (just kidding. you're not the only one).


Embarassed

Sorry Syl...
But again, thanks for what we just discussed...
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need to be sorry. I'm only kidding.

Something else occurred to me - I'd like to see less importance given to acquisition. Seems like everyone races to gobble up the map, and, IMO, that process should happen over decades (or centuries if we had the time) rather than seasons. But doing so confers large advantages, not least of which is faster population growth (despite the fact that one deity can pump as much into one city as another does into several and the gains of the former will be much less than the latter). Perhaps if there was some kind of regional DR rating? I mean, Jupiter should have much less sway in the land of the Celts, even if his followers establish an outpost there. A god could still choose to spread himself thin, but he'd risk a bit more than getting into fights.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syl wrote:
No need to be sorry. I'm only kidding.


uh-huh...
right
at least it got you posting in the forum again. Wink
but anyway...

Syl wrote:
Something else occurred to me - I'd like to see less importance given to acquisition. Seems like everyone races to gobble up the map, and, IMO, that process should happen over decades (or centuries if we had the time) rather than seasons.


Maybe the majority, but I know not everyone does this.

Syl wrote:
But doing so confers large advantages, not least of which is faster population growth (despite the fact that one deity can pump as much into one city as another does into several and the gains of the former will be much less than the latter). Perhaps if there was some kind of regional DR rating? I mean, Jupiter should have much less sway in the land of the Celts, even if his followers establish an outpost there. A god could still choose to spread himself thin, but he'd risk a bit more than getting into fights.


I'm pretty sure there is a regional wealth rating...
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