A Feast for Crows - Spoiler topic

[I'm Murrin]

The book's out, a few of us are reading it already, so here's a topic to discuss things about it in more detail, and to keep the spoilers away from the rest of the forum. I'll be back to post in here once I've finished the book (probably tomorrow).
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[I'm Murrin]

Still not finished, but read far enough to make a small comment. Martin has handed us yet a nother prophecy to deal with, and this one concerns Queen Cersei's fate.
Spoiler:

Apparently 'the valonqar' will kill her, after she has seen her three children crowned and killed. After much obfuscation Martin reveals that 'valonqar' means little brother - and because Cersei believes this to mean Tyrion, I can't possibly think she's right. Unless the prophecy was meant less literally than is supposed, only one possibility comes to mind (because both Aegon and Jon are Dany's elder brothers, so it cannot be a Targaryen (though I think the 'younger and more beautiful' queen is probably Daenerys)) - and that is Rickon Stark.

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[I'm Murrin]

Finished! Here're my comments.

Cersei and the Sparrows:
Spoiler:

Stupid. Very, very stupid. Allowing the High Sparrow to reform the Swords and Stars was the worst thing she could possibly have done, and she's certainly paying for it. At this rate half the kingdom will end up facing the Faith's justice. Yet another big event that no-one predicted - but then, how could we possibly have predicted it - Martin never even hinted that the Faith had once had a military branch.

Jaime:
Spoiler:

Saw his sister's folly easily enough, but couldn't disobey his orders - but perhaps that's for the best. With Cersei imprisoned Kevan is likely to return and assume the regency, which is probably the best thing that could happen, but if Jaime was in King's Landing he would have to fight for her at the trial, and he could never win, he's not ready to fight. Leaving Cersei to her fate may seem cruel, but she'll get what she deserves. Then Jaime can return, and help Tommen become a real king.

Sansa:
Spoiler:

Finally her brain makes an appearance. I think with Littlefinger's help she's finally showing her intelligence, though this plot of his seems dangerous. He intends to marry her once the Imp is dead, and to reveal her name at the wedding - but the Imp won't die any time soon, so I don't see how that will happen. Once she has the Vale on her side, what then? The Freys hold the Neck, the Ironmen have Moat Cailin, the Bastard of Bolton has most of the Northmen on his side, and Stannis is on the Wall. If the northmen rally to her banners, she still has Ramsey and Stannis to deal with.

Arya:
Spoiler:

Seems she's becoming quite the little cutthroat. The kindly man seems disappointed whenever she shows her true self, and I don't think she even knows why she's doing this. I can't tell if she'll go all the way with it - she doesn't seem capable of giving up her old self. And it wouldn't make a good story if Arya was finally gone, and abandoned all her emotional ties to Westeros. Hiding Needle may be a sign that she'll never truly leave her identity behind, but she could always go back and rid herself of it - I expect the kindly man knows she hid it. As for that last line... I suspect a temporary blindness from one of the poisons, as punishment for what she did to Daveon.

Brienne:
Spoiler:

Can't be dead. If the word she shouted was Jaime, I'll be sorely disappointed. If Brienne is not cut down, then her story served no purpose but to tell us the fate of Sandor Clegane, and I can't believe that would be the only reason for it.

Daenerys:
Spoiler:

Seems she'll be gathering quite a crowd when we see her. Tyrion is on his way, Prince Doran has snet his son Quentyn, and Archmaester Marwyn the Mage has hopped the first ship over there. Looking forward to seeing what happens.

Edit (rather than quadruple-post, which I think'd be going too far):
Spoiler:

I was trying to puzzle a couple of things out, and had some interesting thoughts. First, I was thinking this: If Brienne is dead, why did Martin tell her story? The only answer I can come up with is the Hound. Brienne's story is the one that tells us what happened to Clegane - the Elder Brother tells her the he found him near Saltpans, and the the Hound died in his arms. That led to another question: How could the Hound have died, when his story wasn't complete? The Hound was a tormented soul, and before his story could end he had to find peace. That's when a few things clicked together in my mind, and I had to go back and look at that chapter again. The Elder Brother, I'd thought straight away, knew too much about Clegane for the short time he spent with him. When he spoke to Brienne he says "the man you are looking for is dead". He talks about 'this man Sandor Clegane' at length, then finally: 'The Hound died there, in my arms'. However, Brienne then says, "Sandor Clegane is dead", and the Elder Brother replies, "He is at rest." These little things I noticed after my realisation. It had stuck in my mind that Sandor couldn't have died, but I couldn't work out where he could have went instead, until I remembered something else about Brienne's visit to the Quiet Isle - the (very large, and lame in one leg) gravedigger. I knew the truth instantly, and reading the passages again only confirmed it. Martin evens drops a little clue, when the novice stops to pet Dog. The Elder Brother says "the man she is looking for" is dead, and "the Hound" is dead, but he says that Sandor Clegane is at rest. It seems Sandor Clegane's story is complete, because he is finally at rest - and the Hound is dead and buried.

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[OsRavan]

ok thos whole post is spoilers so dont read here if you dont want them






















Spoiler:

1) the hound is prob *not* dead. or rather sandor clegane is not dead. go back and read about the limpign grave digger. on another note i think jaime is the one in cercie's prohpecy. after all he is younger too. on a side note did you pick up that the sphinx is really a sand snake? or frrankenmountain? heh also my personal theory on dallas child was proved correct

[Revan]

Spoiler:

I also jumped to the conclusion that it might just be Jaime who fulfills the prophecy. But what could provoke him to such an extreme, do you think? And do not forget, Cersei's two children have to die and Dany take all she has before it can be fulfilled.

[OsRavan]

not who. what. he knows shes been cheating on him. look at his reaction when he gets the news shes in trouble

[Revan]

There's a large line to leaving someone to there fate, and killing them with your bare hand(s). He knows she's been cheating on him, but I don't think that the new Jaime would straggle her for that.

[Roland of Gilead]

Great and detailed post, Murrin.

The only other thing I would mention is with regard to Daenerys, another person is coming her way, too. Valyrion, brother of Euron Crow's Eye, to abduct her for the Iron Isles.
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"I am, in short, a man on the edge of everything." - Dark Tower II, The Drawing of the Three

[duchess of malfi]

[duchess of malfi]

[tonyz]

Personally, I think Brienne is dead. You weren't expecting Ned's death or the Red Wedding either, were you?
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[duchess of malfi]

[Roland of Gilead]

I would be extremely disappointed if Davos is dead. I personally loathe "off-camera" demises like that. Davos was a major POV character, and if the reader learns of his death after the fact, so to speak, in a botched hostage situation, no less, that would be disgusting.

However, I don't believe Martin will do that. We're not getting the whole story yet, and what we heard at King's Landing is not true.

I wasn't especially thrilled with what happened to Loras Tyrell, either. I like to see these things "up close and personal," not reported later by a third party, particularly an interesting character like the Knight of Flowers. But that's just me.
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"I am, in short, a man on the edge of everything." - Dark Tower II, The Drawing of the Three

[I'm Murrin]

Interesting that something possibly so important would be missed out. Usually Martin puts a PoV char in place for every major event, so Loras was certainly an unusual one (you'd think there'd at least be a perspective on the siege/assault, even if it didn't show Loras directly). Makes you wonder - is there another new PoV? Or has he used an existing one? If so, the most likely option for that role would be Davos, if he weren't dead.
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[duchess of malfi]

It does give you a nice feeling for the time period involved, though -- when rumor was the way most people did get their news.
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Love as thou wilt.

[OsRavan]

knight of flowers prob isnt dead. heh i doubt hes very good looking anymore though

[Zahir]

Some thoughts...

Cercei Spoiler:

is supposed to lose everything to a Queen "younger and more beautiful than her" right? But consider what might be meant by "Beautiful." For example, what will Cercei look like if she undergoes torture (as seems likely)? And she seems not to be aging well at all. What if the "more beautiful queen" ends up being Catelyn? Or even Brienne!

Dany Spoiler:

is assumed to have three consorts in her future. Okay. But why does everyone assume they'll all be men? Asha and Sansa both spring to mind under this scenario--especially the latter since she lost her dragon.

Jaime Spoiler:

burned the letter. That doesn't mean he won't respond. Nor does it mean he will. The main thing is, I don't think it certain any more he will act to save his sister.

The one thing that pretty much convinces me Spoiler:

Brienne is not dead--and this will sound odd--is the sigil she had painted on her shield. Whose was it? I just have a sneaking feeling one way or another... But then, I just don't want her to be dead, do I?

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"O let my name be in the Book of Love!
It be there, I care not of the other great book Above.
Strike it out! Or, write it in anew. But
Let my name be in the Book of Love!" --Omar Khayam

[duchess of malfi]

Briene:


Spoiler:

The sigil belonged to her ancestor, Ser Duncan the Tall, better known as Ser Dunc from the Dunc and Egg novellas.

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Love as thou wilt.

[I'm Murrin]

Is that the one she had painted over the top, or the one that was covered up?
Either way, I agree. Spoiler:

Dunc is probably one of the most famous Lord Commanders of the Kingsguard, so that could be pretty significant. However, so far I can't really see Brienne's place in the larger story - she was there as part of Jaime's development at first, then branched off. She could end up involved in Stoneheart's gang, could join Sansa and Littlefinger, could just get killed off, but I don't see where she fits in the whole Dany/Others thing GRRM is surely setting up slowly and unobtrusively in the background of these plotlines.

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Inspiration Struck.

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[duchess of malfi]

It was the new one she had painted.
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Love as thou wilt.