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Ebola outbreak
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Zarathustra
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:56 pm    Post subject: Ebola outbreak Reply with quote

This is starting to get serious, deserving its own thread.

Our border crisis is no longer an issue of "think of the children!" The surge of children is overwhelming our border security, making it easier for not only cartels and terrorists to enter, but also people from the ebola-stricken countries:

Quote:
Among the significant revelations are that individuals from nations currently suffering from the world’s largest Ebola outbreak have been caught attempting to sneak across the porous U.S. border into the interior of the United States. At least 71 individuals from the three nations affected by the current Ebola outbreak have either turned themselves in or been caught attempting to illegally enter the U.S. by U.S. authorities between January 2014 and July 2014.


link

New fears were sparked when [url=www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ebola-terror-gatwick-passenger-collapses-3977051#ixzz39RGXvq2Y ] a passenger from a Sierra Leone flight collapses and dies after getting off the plane in England.[/url]

Quote:
Speaking of the horrific moment the passenger collapsed, the shocked staff member added: “The woman was sweating buckets and vomiting.

“Paramedics arrived to try and help her. The next thing everybody was there… emergency crews, airfield operations, even immigration.

“They closed down the jet bridge and put the aircraft into quarantine.

“They took everyone’s details, even the guy who fuels the aircraft.”

The plane carrying the woman came from Freetown in Sierra Leone – a country with the highest number of victims from the disease.



Of course, officials are downplaying the event, but one might expect that in order to stave off a panic. But our international community is clearly vulnerable. [Edit: at the very end of the article, it was noted that officials determined the cause of death wasn't Ebola. I'll leave the previous content here as evidence of Ebola fears, even though those fears turned out to be wrong. It's still part of the unfolding story.]

At the very least, Obama has stopped making jokes about moats and alligators guarding our border. It's time to shut it down.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It isn't only Ebola coming across the border, either. We are seeing here in the United States a resurgence of diseases that were mostly eradicated decades ago.

This news, of course, is different from the news that if you are on a hiking trip in the Rio Grande Valley you just might come across a dead body or two (or more), some of which might have been there for a couple of weeks. The most likely scenario, though, is that any body you come across might have been there for only two or three days--there are enough scavenger mammals and birds that human remains wouldn't last that long. Coyotes--the human ones--typically abandon anyone who can't or doesn't keep up, presuming they didn't tell them something stupid like "San Antonio is only 30 miles that way; you'll make it by morning" when they were actually 50 miles from the nearest small town with neither food, water, nor maps.

These people are usually fleeing from groups who behead people and hang the corpses from bridges. Short of coming up with some way to deter them which is more graphic and/or shocking that that, nothing we do will stop them from finding a way into this country. I don't recommend crucifying or staking out victims with signs nailed to their chest saying "los diablos vive aqui" so I am curious what could possibly be done to "shut it down".

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So not actually people with Ebola though, just people who come from countries where they are having an outbreak. How did they arrive at the borders? It's not like it's a journey you can make on foot.

Like you said, fear.

Not that it isn't serious or potentially pandemic-causing, but it's not like it is air vectored or anything. You have to come into contact with the blood or faecal matter of an infected person to run the risk of infection.

Personally, we're a lot more at risk than you guys are, being so much closer and one of the leading countries for medical care in Africa. The US is probably perfectly capable of containing any Ebola infections there. (Also this strain appears to have a higher survival rate.)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ebola outbreak could be much worse than thought
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
Ebola outbreak could be much worse than thought
It could also be a lot better. At this point, we are in the "panic" phase of the Ebola outbreak story, where few statements are grounded in fact or references and when actual studies are used, they are misinterpreted to cause more panic.

Such as the claim that the world government knows that Ebola is actually airborne but is withholding that information from the public on purpose. After all, who would know more about Ebola then the shadow group that created it?! Twisted Evil

I prescribe the following: Chill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't seen evidence that people are panicking, hence no need to chill.

The CDC is instructing people to take precautions against airborne transmission. The likelihood of airborne infection hasn't been ruled out; the evidence is still inconclusive.

I think the reason we have brought back the two Americans is to experiment on them to learn what we need to do if the outbreak spreads to America in a significant way. After all, we *are* giving them experimental treatment, that could have been given in Africa ... except that the CDC doesn't control those hospitals/labs.

The two doctors got infected, despite wearing hazmat suits and taking precautions that a doctor would damn well take. And yet they still got it ... what do you conclude from that? Do you think these doctors were sloppy and didn't know how to protect themselves? Or is it perhaps easier to catch than we're being told?
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Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
I haven't seen evidence that people are panicking, hence no need to chill.
You must be in a pretty calm place. Lucky you Razz
Quote:
The CDC is instructing people to take precautions against airborne transmission. The likelihood of airborne infection hasn't been ruled out; the evidence is still inconclusive.

It's more of the fluid transmission. People who do hack and cough will transmit fluid that Ebola might be in. If you are around that a lot (say, at a hospital without the proper precautions) that could lead to transmission.

But that is still not the same as "airborne". Ebola can not survive without being transported in some fluid state.

Quote:
I think the reason we have brought back the two Americans is to experiment on them to learn what we need to do if the outbreak spreads to America in a significant way. After all, we *are* giving them experimental treatment, that could have been given in Africa ... except that the CDC doesn't control those hospitals/labs.
That's an interesting conjecture and possibly the best argument for bringing them back to the US.

Quote:
The two doctors got infected, despite wearing hazmat suits and taking precautions that a doctor would damn well take. And yet they still got it ... what do you conclude from that? Do you think these doctors were sloppy and didn't know how to protect themselves? Or is it perhaps easier to catch than we're being told?
Of course they were sloppy. They are human after all, and one seems to not really have been trained in medicine. They both wanted to help during the worse Ebola epidemic What's to prevent them from getting tired or exhausted and not follow protocol because their minds are a little addled from the stress?

And never mind that, are they wearing their hazmat suits 24/7? Are they realistically able to avoid all sources of the disease (such as, perhaps, undercooked infected pig?) A hazmat suit only works for specific situations, and I feel that there are plenty of other opportunities for them to get Ebola out side of the areas where they would wear the suit.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two doctors were probably sloppy in some way--fatigue can make you forget to take proper precautions. Remember that there were nurses who worked with Spanish Influenza patients back in 1918 who did not succumb to that flu, and it is both airborne and highly contagious.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post Orlion.

Look, there's no doubt it's a terrifying and deadly disease. But the US will have no problems. They'll quarantine anybody who had any risk of contact with any infected person, and it'll burn itself out.

The people at the most risk are the ones we are least likely to do anything about or for.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been watching these stories as they have been emerging for some time now. It is pretty terrifying. You feel horrible for the people in the affected countries now that they say it is going out of the WHOs ability to stop. What a terrible way to die.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-Protesters attack Liberia Ebola unit
Breaking news
A quarantine centre for suspected Ebola patients in the Liberian capital Monrovia has been attacked and looted by protesters, police say.

The incident happened in the densely populated West Point township on Saturday evening.

The protesters were unhappy that patients were being brought in from other parts of the capital, the assistant health minister said.

Officials said blood-stained bedding was looted from the centre
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who breaks into a quarantine center where Ebola patients are being treated and steals blood-stained bedding? Are the looters trying to contract the disease themselves? Are they trying to cause an outbreak?

The current outbreak is beginning to have a negative impact on the economies of various countries, as well--the IMF is staring to revise estimates of GDPs downward because of the trade and travel restrictions which are in place.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Who breaks into a quarantine center where Ebola patients are being treated and steals blood-stained bedding? Are the looters trying to contract the disease themselves? Are they trying to cause an outbreak?

Yes, it is really odd behaviour when seen from the outside. But, my husband and i were watching some interview with soldiers in one of the countries in that area. The man being interviewed was carrying an automatic weapon and had a rocket launcher thingie over his shoulder. He also was wearing various talismans. The interviewer asked what the talismans were and he explained that they were magic against bullets; that no one could shoot him since he was wearing this magic device. Was a surreal juxtaposition with the rocket launcher, machine gun and the magic necklaces.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite common in Africa. Remnants of tribal belief systems considered quite compatible with the modern world. Leads to all sorts of unfortunate events. Need more and longer-term education.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been hearing worrying stories about this outbreak getting out of hand. Why is the international response so slow? In places like Sierra Leone they are even taking measures that go against recommended practice:
And in Liberia the treatment centres are having to turn people away because they are overcrowded, which means that sick people are going back to their villages where they are like to transmit the disease further.

u.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ussusimiel wrote:
Why is the international response so slow?


On the one hand, the people who are responding are doing amazing things with nothing. On the other, most of the world just doesn't care that much.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not careing about this outbreak seems incredibly short sighted to me. Every article I have read suggests that the bigger the outbreak the more likely it is to give the virus a chance to mutate into a strain that is even more infectious. Stop it now before it turns into a Pandemic.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost no one outside of Africa ever thinks twice about Africa unless something makes the news. Unless properly contained, the probability of someone who has contracted the disease making it out and bringing it with them to some population center will continue to increase until an event occurs; by then it will be too late.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SerScot wrote:
Not careing about this outbreak seems incredibly short sighted to me.

As opposed to the long view that political decisions usually take? I suppose we could discuss the predisposition of democracy for short term thinking as a side thread.

Some of the lack of response is merely a matter of getting the ball rolling. These balls are hard to roll. But they eventually do.

Anyone think the UN or at least the WHO should have had the capacity to pounce on this quickly and with sufficient resources? We shall see some funding changes I think.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, good post WF. Except I doubt there will be funding changes.

As for pandemic, as soon as it leaves the continent, anywhere it crops up in a developed country will be jumped on and shut down instantly. They have the resources to isolate it if it leaves. If it doesn't...well...just Africa, right? Sad

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