Gender and Restrooms in School

[Hashi Lebwohl]

The article from [url=america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/4/1/transgender-bathroom-bills-are-a-statewide-trend.html]AJA may be found here.[/url]

In short, several State Legislatures are proposing bills which would require students in school to visit the restroom which coincides with their genetic gender (XX for females, XY for males) rather than their self-realized gender identity. Opponents of these bills have coined a wonderful sound-byte zinger, calling them "bathroom bully" laws. Some laws go a little farther and prevent any place with gender-separate restrooms/shower areas/changing rooms such as gyms to allow anyone with a Y chromosome to enter the ladies' room; allowing this to happen could result in the business being fined and it owners/operators being sent to jail.

I am not a psychiatrist but in my opinion if you want to find out what gender you are then take all your clothes off and look at yourself in the mirror. If you see a penis and testes then you are a male and if you don't then you are a female; I will not consider the rare cases of hermaphroditism or XXY or XYY as those are special cases. Based on this, enter the restroom/shower room/changing room based on that gender. Objections such as "but I know that I am girl" are easily countered with "how do I know you aren't just trying to get into the girls' room to sneak some free peeks and naked girls?". Would you want your wife or daughter to go into a womens' room and risk some dude trying to follow them in there simply because he felt like a woman that day?

I don't doubt that people who are trans have had some serious struggles in their life--it cannot be easy to suffer through identity problems. That being said, in my opinion--my non-medical opinion--the real root of their identity problem is not their biological pieces and parts but because someone damaged them psychologically in some way at some point. There is no other reason an 8-year-old boy, as cited by the personal story in the article, would self-identify as a girl.

On the other hand, our Declaration states that we should have the right to pursue our own happiness--if your chromosomes say XX but you know deep down that you are male then by all means go for it. Just like some of my rights stop where they infringe upon your rights, though, your right to pursue your self-identity stops when it means potentially crossing the lines of sexual harassment or being some sort of subtle peeping tom.

All things considered, I do not think laws like these are really necessary. Just because someone is trans doesn't mean they are going into a restroom to sneak some free peeks at people. They go to the restroom for the same reasons the rest of us go--they need to take care of a different biological urge. Truthfully, if some guy wants to see naked or partially naked females he will do so via his computer in the privacy of his own home.
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No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

[Cail]

Unisex bathrooms and locker rooms.

Problem solved.
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"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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[Hashi Lebwohl]

Exactly--the simple solutions are usually the best ones. If you don't want to use the gym's unisex locker room then change at home before you go.

Truthfully, I can't imagine that any female wanting to trans to male would willingly go into a men's room.
_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

[SoulBiter]

I already see this in places. They have Mens, Womens, and Family (which has a picture of both sexes)
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**"You can deny if you will but the "hens" didn't just happen to show up when they did, by accident. "**

"All of the above is my opinion and thus shouldnt need to be supported by anything other than more of my opinions. "

We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch

[Vraith]

[Hashi Lebwohl]

[Rawedge Rim]

[Harbinger]

Is this an issue in Europe?

Just curious...I doubt this would be such a big deal if American Christians weren't taught to be ashamed of their sex. Hell, you never even see or hear the word sex used to describe the biological characteristics which define if an organism is male or female. The popular term in the late 90s was "gender." Unfortunately, it stuck.

"Boys have penis and girls have vagina." - 5 year old in Kindergarten Cop

Get over it.
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Never underestimate the power of denial. - Ricky Fitts

[Avatar]

[Orlion]

But... then we won't cater to the capricious whims of the transgendered!

I was talking with my friend about the difference between the homosexual fight for equal rights and the transgender fight for equal rights: in the first, you have "treat us like you would treat anyone else." In the later, you have "you must treat us like this or you are a bigot!"

As a result, you can see why the first has made greater strides towards their goal than the later. Average Joe looks at the gay issue and can easily say, "Oh, it really does not affect my behaviour if they have equal rights, why not?" Where as with the transgendered, "Wait, I have to what? Assigned gender, what nonsense is that? I have to use what pronoun? It depends? I have to treat you as a female even if you have no intention of having a sex change operation? Wait, what? Go fuck yourself!"
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'Tis dream to think that Reason can
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville

I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!

"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley

[Cail]

I have said for years that the homosexual community has done themselves no favors aligning themselves with the transsexual/transgender communities.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________

[Avatar]

[Orlion]

[Avatar]

The context is immaterial. If the problem is that men want to be treated as women (and vice versa) it wouldn't be a problem if men and women were treated the same anyway, would it?

--A
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It's easy to judge. It's more difficult to understand.

[Cail]

As soon as women want to be treated like men, we can talk about that.
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________

[Orlion]

[Avatar]

[Hashi Lebwohl]

This is the closest thread to this news story.

What the heck is this crap? [url=america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/21/california-sets-policy-for-inmate-sex-reassignment.html]California prison systems will begin offering hormone treatments via its medical program, paving the way for trans inmates to begin the process of gender reassignment[/url]. This is stupid--it is not the function of government, whether Federal, State, or local, to pay for elective medical procedures. I don't care how desperate you are to become the gender you feel you are, you will not die if you don't get hormone treatments or reassignment surgery; thus, the procedures are elective.

Why not offer hair color treatments so inmates can change that? Why not offer color-changing contact lenses so they can have the eye color they want? Why not offer rhinoplasty so inmates can have the nose they want?

Personally, I don't care whether you are male and happy with that, female and happy with that, male and unhappy with that, or female and unhappy with that--your gender identity concerns are your concerns, not mine. I may wish you luck on your journey to find yourself, find happiness, or both but I am not going to contribute any money to your journey, either...nor should I be required to do so via taxes. (no, I don't live in California but the principle still applies)
_________________
No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

What is the secret of Zen? Burn all your Zen books.

If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

[Vraith]

[Hashi Lebwohl]