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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:30 pm    Post subject: Social Media and Politics Reply with quote

Over the past several years many figures have become prominent in politics solely because of social media. Youtube, Twitter and facebook have helped galvanise such figures as Ben Shapiro, Sargon of Akkad, Jordan Peterson, Milo Yiannopolous, the Young Turks, Secular Talk and many more.

I think it's fair to say many people who have influence in the political arena wouldn't have made it if social media and youtube clips weren't such a big part of our lives now.

It's interesting; because in my view this is going to lead to a further fractured and compartmentalised public. Where traditional media stuck to the Overton Window, new media is shattering old discourse.

I was just wondering what your thoughts where on this? Are there any "New Media" personalities you've taken notice of? How do you think the new media landscape is going to change political discourse in the future?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The older I get, the more I ignore the media, old and new alike. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im the opposite. I follow news media with interest. But not on Facebook mostly televised news coverage .. so old media from your perspective. Though I read news items that come through Facebook .. but that is definitely fragmented coverage and Ive found, to my displeasure that the news I get mostly aligns with my political perspective.. and thats not always a positive as its not wholistic.. and fraught with bias based on the individuals preferences.

That aspect is a concern.

Which is why I like telemedia news and print media news as well.

I am interested in your views though, how do you see these developments in media creating a fragmented public.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People who receive a majority of their news or current events information from social media-driven outlets are both lazy and want only to exist in their own little bubble of safe, comfortable, confirmation bias. Social media is one of the most important causes as to why political discourse is so rancorous these days--because it is so impersonal people wind up speaking at each other instead of with each other.

People are still concerned that the Trump Campaign might have colluded with the Russians to influence the last Presidential election; however, to date there is no definitive proof of this. We do have proof, though, that Facebook allowed Cambridge Analytica to collect data and target people for political ads, so since Facebook was cashing the checks from CA as well as the checks from the Russian troll farms who were also mass-marketing targeted psuedo-political "news" items, we may conclude that Facebook colluded with the Russians to influence the outcome of the election.

Politics fora like this are fine, but if it were up to me I would forbid political content on social media platforms like Facebook. If you want to reconnect with your old high school pals (or your old flame), share ridiculous cat pictures, or shares videos of your toddler who doesn't quite know how food works yet then Facebook is for you. I am actually a member of the official Babylon 5 group on Facebook but I don't do anything with it because it has been so derailed by overly-partisan politics--I guess they didn't understand the moral of that whole Drazi green/purple business.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
I am interested in your views though, how do you see these developments in media creating a fragmented public.


Well I touched on it in my opening. A few short decades ago 99% of the information the public got was from traditional media, usually with a lot of corporate or state backing, and as a result stayed within what's called the Overton Window:
Quote:
The Overton window, also known as the window of discourse, is the range of ideas tolerated in public discourse. The term is derived from its originator, Joseph P. Overton, a former vice president of the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, who in his description of his window claimed that an idea's political viability depends mainly on whether it falls within the window, rather than on politicians' individual preferences. According to Overton's description, his window includes a range of policies considered politically acceptable in the current climate of public opinion, which a politician can recommend without being considered too extreme to gain or keep public office.


Now; with any opinion or view just a few clicks away it's far easier for people fragment themselves off and build their own bubble. The alt right and regressive left are classic examples of this.

Also we have to consider that it's far easier to demean and be cruel to someone who disagrees with you online.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Revan wrote:
Also we have to consider that it's far easier to demean and be cruel to someone who disagrees with you online.


People are much less likely to call each other "asshole" (or some other derogatory adjective) if they have to look that person in the eye.

Although...it seems like people's online predilections towards verbal aggression are spilling out into the offline world with alarming regularity these days.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Revan wrote:
Also we have to consider that it's far easier to demean and be cruel to someone who disagrees with you online.


People are much less likely to call each other "asshole" (or some other derogatory adjective) if they have to look that person in the eye.

Although...it seems like people's online predilections towards verbal aggression are spilling out into the offline world with alarming regularity these days.


You only need to look at the last US election to see that. You don't have to be a partisan to find a lot of what the far left did in the lead up to that election to be a disgrace; the violent protest with Trump's rally in Chicago. On President Umpa Lumpa's inauguration there was violence against Trump supporters and even smashing of cars indiscriminately. I saw videos of Trump supporters having urine dumped on them several times.

The alt-right and anti-fa would not have arisen without the internet and social media; just two demonstrations on how the internet is affecting political discourse.

Of course there are bright sides too. Very Happy People can become much more informed; they can even choose to learn what the other sides say and why.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minorities though. It's far easier to live in your filter bubble and expose yourself to everything you already agree with, and as a result assume that every right thinking person must think the same thing.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sargon seems like a pretty reasonable guy, although all of his videos are basically where he is talking about some unhinged Progressive professors or something. Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson seem pretty okay as well. I've definitely heard some pretty interesting arguments made by the latter. I find the Young Turks to be pretty cringey. Then again, I am not a Progressive, so I don't agree with a lot of things they would say anyway.

As far as news, I generally tend to get information from the BBC. I don't use social media for this purpose, and I usually don't watch social media political shows anyway. I would also have to agree that it will lead to an even more polarized society, just like activism has done where everyone wants to have a cause that they support that is usually within the left vs. right paradigm.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that almost all the "social media" media shows are fringe, whether Left or Right, and cater to that fringe crowd. I would view anything coming from them as having insufficient credibility.

Journalism, in times past, was about being Sergeant Joe Friday and reporting just the facts--Who, What, Where, and When; the analysts would try to discuss the Why of it. These days, journalism seems to be more about the Why than any of the other W's, and the way they present the Why is designed to forward whatever agenda they are trying to push.

I want only the original W's; I can figure out the Why for myself with a little research.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Journalism, in times past, was about being Sergeant Joe Friday and reporting just the facts--Who, What, Where, and When; the analysts would try to discuss the Why of it. These days, journalism seems to be more about the Why than any of the other W's, and the way they present the Why is designed to forward whatever agenda they are trying to push.


Could not agree more with this..

I was raised during the 60's with Walther, Chet, David and remember Eric
behind the desk.
In some sense Agnew was right.. he warned us of the future.
The major media slowly swaying the masses to their point of view.
It did come crashing down after the 2016 elections. They lost big time.

So much, I now place their product on the rack next to the cashier's machine.

The rise to respectability by the major media will take Mea culpa's for the next 30 to 40 years.

Their product isn't in the gutters.. They parachuted off from sewer level.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ur Dead wrote:

The major media slowly swaying the masses to their point of view.


And it's not even a unified view. All they do is concrete in the "support" of the people who already share those views.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar wrote:
Ur Dead wrote:

The major media slowly swaying the masses to their point of view.


And it's not even a unified view. All they do is concrete in the "support" of the people who already share those views.
No, it's very unified. You should spend more time watching it. ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN.....pretty much everyone but Fox is goose-stepping to the same drummer.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avatar lives in South Africa(or so it says on his name)
He wouldn't get those broadcasts...
Also it would take months to years to see the pattern that
the US media does. We have been exposed to it all our lives but to a Non-US person they can't see the big picture(U.S.) because their media is geared toward them.

(Or Avatar is it misleading on your residence shown under your name?)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ur Dead wrote:
Avatar lives in South Africa(or so it says on his name)
He wouldn't get those broadcasts...
Also it would take months to years to see the pattern that
the US media does. We have been exposed to it all our lives but to a Non-US person they can't see the big picture(U.S.) because their media is geared toward them.

(Or Avatar is it misleading on your residence shown under your name?)
I'm aware of that. Which is why I was questioning his proclamation.

It's a travesty what passes for news now.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly. Democracy Now's coverage of the Gaza protests makes it seem like peaceful Palestinians were calmly walking up to the border fence when the jack-booted IDF began shooting into the crowd, spraying bullets indiscriminately. They don't mention the rocks or bottles being thrown, the shouts for militant protest, or the 7-year-old-girl who was ushered to approach the fence just so they could catch the IDF shooting a child.

Most "news" isn't news, anymore, just slant and bias.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cail wrote:
Ur Dead wrote:
Avatar lives in South Africa(or so it says on his name)
He wouldn't get those broadcasts...
Also it would take months to years to see the pattern that
the US media does. We have been exposed to it all our lives but to a Non-US person they can't see the big picture(U.S.) because their media is geared toward them.

(Or Avatar is it misleading on your residence shown under your name?)
I'm aware of that. Which is why I was questioning his proclamation.

It's a travesty what passes for news now.


No, I don't see any of those. What I meant was that "liberals" have their news providers, and (presumably) "conservatives" have theirs.

So people generally only see the narrative that they're already predisposed toward. (Certainly on social media.)

Not sure / wasn't aware that you have so few "conservative" media providers.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Av, if you paid attention you'd know that's not the case. Posts like these are why I'm so dismissive of you. You don't do the research, but you make these ill-informed proclamations.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really? There's no conservative news sources? Social media isn't filled with so-called stories saying how liberals are destroying the country? (And how conservatives are doing it for that matter?) People aren't negotiating through filter bubbles and echo chambers online?

Maybe (and I'll take your word for it) there aren't many mainstream "conservative" news sources, but that doesn't seem to cut down the amount of conservatively slanted news that people manage to consume and distribute.

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