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The Latest Potentially-Explosive Racially-Charged Murder II
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Hashi Lebwohl
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The name being kicked around for AG right now is Merrick Garland.

Kenneth Jones was killed in a police stop Friday night in Omaha, Nebraska. There were four people in the car and Mr. Jones was the only one who refused to comply with police directives, struggling and resisting them, resulting in him reaching for a gun--a .45 was found on his person after the incident. Given that the other three complied and he did not, we may chalk this up to "suicide by cop". One local protestor, Peyton Zyla, told the local Omaha World-Herald "until police prove that they didn't murder a black man, we're not shutting up--not one bit”. You moron--our system is "innocent until proven guilty" so the police don't have to prove anything, especially to you. No, they are innocent until proven guilty....and since Mr. Jones was reaching for a gun, guess what? They will still be innocent when the investigation is over--they will not be indicted by a grand jury.

In Florida, an 18-year-old black man was shot and killed by police....but the medical examiner determined that one of the two gunshot wounds he had was self-inflicted. Devon Tilman Gregory was in a car that got stopped, he started to reach under the seat for something, which escalated the situation, and while he had a phone up to his head he started yelling "fucking kill me" to the police. This goes on for 19 minutes--a long body cam video--then Mr. Gregory puts his head down between his knees, a gunshot from inside the vehicle is heard, and his head kicks back. At this point police discharge their own weapons but I suspect he was already dead. Not suicide by cop, just plain old suicide.

This is the patter over and over--initially it seems like police just shoot and kill a black American for no reason, only to find out that the person who got killed was resisting and/or reaching for a weapon. There is no pattern of police "hunting" anyone.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merrick Garland? Republicans didn't give Robert Bork a consolation job.

Everytime I've been stopped and questioned by police it ended up with me walking away.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're an old white guy Sarge... Very Happy

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:

This is the pattern over and over--initially it seems like police just shoot and kill a black American for no reason, only to find out that the person who got killed was resisting and/or reaching for a weapon.


Except for the cases where they did kill an unarmed or non-resistant black Americans?

Now, I tend to agree that it's not necessarily a pattern, however, that is not to say that it doesn't happen (more frequently than it should) too.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Av - you said it yourself, it isn't a pattern. Hashi has posted the stats to show it doesn't happen as the media would have you believe.

I had an inmate come back to prison less than a year after parole. I asked what happened. He said his parole officer revoked him a bs charge. This is what he told me happened...

He was pulled over in Oklahoma speeding in the 18 Wheeler he was driving. (Speeding - first violation) he had no valid driver's license (second violation) he did not have permission from his PO to be out of state (third) while searching the truck they found cocaine (4th) and pistol ( felon with gun - 5th) during his PO's mandated drug test he had weed in his system (6th) and turns out he missed a meet with his PO (7th) while working put of state.

So when told a version of events try to remember to question if that is what really happened.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but saying "It isn't a pattern" kinda misses the point...it still happens. And it happens at a much higher rate than them shooting white people (not a higher number, numbers are about even).

Saying "it's not a pattern," while true, sounds like saying, it doesn't happen, which is not the case.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:

This is the pattern over and over--initially it seems like police just shoot and kill a black American for no reason, only to find out that the person who got killed was resisting and/or reaching for a weapon.

I find it extremely suspicious how many black people are purportedly stupid enough to reach for an officer's weapon in an effort to avoid being detained for disorderly conduct or whathaveyou.

Maybe what's happening is that, given enough time, the police can concoct an alternate version of events which is sufficient to extricate them from their all-to-easily-avoided charges. You know -- like the system is designed for that.

Which would explain the pattern over and over of police lying about what happened, only to be shown up by video evidence that they cannot evade.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:

This is the pattern over and over--initially it seems like police just shoot and kill a black American for no reason, only to find out that the person who got killed was resisting and/or reaching for a weapon.

I find it extremely suspicious how many black people are purportedly stupid enough to reach for an officer's weapon in an effort to avoid being detained for disorderly conduct or whathaveyou.
Black people have a different attitude towards the cops than white people, a "fuck the police" mentality that is reflected in their music, culture, etc. While it may seem surprising to us how often they resist arrest, it's not so surprising when you acknowledge the difference in their attitudes and culture.

There are a lot of differences between blacks and whites that I find outrageous, but my outrage doesn't make them untrue; differences in: murder rates, school drop out rates, deadbeat dad rates, single parent family rates, etc. It's easy to look at statistics like how often cops shoot one race vs another and point a finger at the politically correct "aggressor," but it takes a bit more fortitude to acknowledge the politically incorrect, unpopular statistics that paint a less favorable picture of the purported "victims."

If blacks weren't committing more crime, joining gangs, abandoning their kids, celebrating thug lifestyles, and resisting arrest, I bet we'd see the statistics for how they're treated by the cops match other races. It would be a nice experiment, wouldn't it? Maybe they should try it out. At the end of the day, if they were still treated the same, I'd freely admit I was wrong. But their lives would still be vastly improved.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

Zarathustra wrote:
Black people have a different attitude towards the cops than white people, a "fuck the police" mentality that is reflected in their music, culture, etc. While it may seem surprising to us how often they resist arrest, it's not so surprising when you acknowledge the difference in their attitudes and culture.

There are a lot of differences between blacks and whites that I find outrageous, but my outrage doesn't make them untrue; differences in: murder rates, school drop out rates, deadbeat dad rates, single parent family rates, etc. It's easy to look at statistics like how often cops shoot one race vs another and point a finger at the politically correct "aggressor," but it takes a bit more fortitude to acknowledge the politically incorrect, unpopular statistics that paint a less favorable picture of the purported "victims."

If blacks weren't committing more crime, joining gangs, abandoning their kids, celebrating thug lifestyles, and resisting arrest, I bet we'd see the statistics for how they're treated by the cops match other races. It would be a nice experiment, wouldn't it? Maybe they should try it out. At the end of the day, if they were still treated the same, I'd freely admit I was wrong. But their lives would still be vastly improved.


That seems like a whole lotta words to basically assert that the outcomes of the System — the inscrutable ways of the Invisible Hand — are simply right and just by definition.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I deal with inmates. A subset of the population. They act out aggressively at times. Even though the end result is always the same. We will gain compliance. But many have the attitude that they can take one of us out of commission and they will win.

Take it for what it's worth. Not everyone has the same outlook. Morals. Ideals. Etc.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wosbald wrote:
+JMJ+

Zarathustra wrote:
Black people have a different attitude towards the cops than white people, a "fuck the police" mentality that is reflected in their music, culture, etc. While it may seem surprising to us how often they resist arrest, it's not so surprising when you acknowledge the difference in their attitudes and culture.

There are a lot of differences between blacks and whites that I find outrageous, but my outrage doesn't make them untrue; differences in: murder rates, school drop out rates, deadbeat dad rates, single parent family rates, etc. It's easy to look at statistics like how often cops shoot one race vs another and point a finger at the politically correct "aggressor," but it takes a bit more fortitude to acknowledge the politically incorrect, unpopular statistics that paint a less favorable picture of the purported "victims."

If blacks weren't committing more crime, joining gangs, abandoning their kids, celebrating thug lifestyles, and resisting arrest, I bet we'd see the statistics for how they're treated by the cops match other races. It would be a nice experiment, wouldn't it? Maybe they should try it out. At the end of the day, if they were still treated the same, I'd freely admit I was wrong. But their lives would still be vastly improved.


That seems like a whole lotta words to basically assert that the outcomes of the System — the inscrutable ways of the Invisible Hand — are simply right and just by definition.
No, not really. But I'm not surprised that's all you got out of it. You're either simplifying my points in order to create a caricature that suits your own purposes, or you truly didn't comprehend what I said. I keep seeing people argue for nuance on this site, but then they want to dumb down the other side.

I said what I meant, not your dismissive paraphrase.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sgt.null wrote:
I deal with inmates. A subset of the population. They act out aggressively at times. Even though the end result is always the same. We will gain compliance. But many have the attitude that they can take one of us out of commission and they will win.

Take it for what it's worth. Not everyone has the same outlook. Morals. Ideals. Etc.
The ones who think there is something to gain in becoming a criminal--or that they gain "street cred" by going to jail--are also the ones who think it makes perfect sense to resist arrest. The rest of us recognize it as fucking stupid, but then the rest of us don't *choose* a life of crime.

I don't think this is necessarily a racial thing. My own brother was a redneck alcoholic who resisted arrest. He got beat the fuck up by the cops. Perhaps the only reason he didn't get shot was because they pulled him out of his own bed, passed out with his music too loud, rather than stopping him in a car (he didn't own a car).

Some people are self-destructive assholes. My own brother was one. He's dead now, drank himself to death. But he's the kind of person who resists arrest. They're all over the place, and of every race. Unfortunately, blacks choose this kind of response more frequently, due to cultural differences. We have to change that.

You can't change self-destructive behavior by blaming someone else. Is that truism clear enough for you, Wossy?
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Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth ... Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I do-back to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning. -Nietzsche
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the inmates can get a victory in that scenario. They might do something to a CO that has never been done to that CO before. They might permanently disable or kill you the CO. Either is an absolute life changer, for you and your family.

OTOH, what can you do to an inmate? You can't change his life by sending him to prison. He's likely been in a good many fights, so likely lost some pretty badly, so beating him up won't be any kind of change for him. Permanently disable him and your life will probably change for the worse more than his will.

So yeah, the inmates will always comply. Time after time. But one of those times, they might "win" before they do.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fist - they can get more time. But yes, I have been fortunate not to have been attacked. I've had to be physical. Part of the issue is that some c/o's should not be working corrections. They don't have the feel for it. Its almost a sixth sense.

Z - my younger brother was like yours. A drug addicted monor criminal. I still miss him.
Its not racial at the prison. Its usually an age thing. Younger criminals are extremely dumb. You have some guys who are just crazy, but I usually do well with them. Tbh, older Mexican inmates are usually the best workers. I usually end up with the ones who speak no English. We work it out.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+JMJ+

Zarathustra wrote:
Wosbald wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:
Black people have a different attitude towards the cops than white people, a "fuck the police" mentality that is reflected in their music, culture, etc. While it may seem surprising to us how often they resist arrest, it's not so surprising when you acknowledge the difference in their attitudes and culture.

There are a lot of differences between blacks and whites that I find outrageous, but my outrage doesn't make them untrue; differences in: murder rates, school drop out rates, deadbeat dad rates, single parent family rates, etc. It's easy to look at statistics like how often cops shoot one race vs another and point a finger at the politically correct "aggressor," but it takes a bit more fortitude to acknowledge the politically incorrect, unpopular statistics that paint a less favorable picture of the purported "victims."

If blacks weren't committing more crime, joining gangs, abandoning their kids, celebrating thug lifestyles, and resisting arrest, I bet we'd see the statistics for how they're treated by the cops match other races. It would be a nice experiment, wouldn't it? Maybe they should try it out. At the end of the day, if they were still treated the same, I'd freely admit I was wrong. But their lives would still be vastly improved.


That seems like a whole lotta words to basically assert that the outcomes of the System — the inscrutable ways of the Invisible Hand — are simply right and just by definition.


No, not really. But I'm not surprised that's all you got out of it. You're either simplifying my points in order to create a caricature that suits your own purposes, or you truly didn't comprehend what I said. I keep seeing people argue for nuance on this site, but then they want to dumb down the other side.

I said what I meant, not your dismissive paraphrase.


Okay. So, let's go with that. My simplification of your position is not accurate.

If so, this would mean that "outcomes of the System" are not definitionally right and just. Injustices, or at least their real possibility, thus pepper the System.

Therefore, Blacks are not obliged to clear some bar of majoritarian cultural conformity before their cries of Systemic Racism can be taken seriously.

Are we now on the same page? 📖
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathustra wrote:
Black people have a different attitude towards the cops than white people, a "fuck the police" mentality that is reflected in their music, culture, etc. While it may seem surprising to us how often they resist arrest, it's not so surprising when you acknowledge the difference in their attitudes and culture.

There are a lot of differences between blacks and whites that I find outrageous, but my outrage doesn't make them untrue; differences in: murder rates, school drop out rates, deadbeat dad rates, single parent family rates, etc. It's easy to look at statistics like how often cops shoot one race vs another and point a finger at the politically correct "aggressor," but it takes a bit more fortitude to acknowledge the politically incorrect, unpopular statistics that paint a less favorable picture of the purported "victims."

If blacks weren't committing more crime, joining gangs, abandoning their kids, celebrating thug lifestyles, and resisting arrest, I bet we'd see the statistics for how they're treated by the cops match other races. It would be a nice experiment, wouldn't it? Maybe they should try it out. At the end of the day, if they were still treated the same, I'd freely admit I was wrong. But their lives would still be vastly improved.

So if anyone wanted to know what justifies my signature ...

( Why this post is not only wrong but misinformation: it stops at statistics, but does not explore the causes of the statistics, leaving it implied that black people are intrinsically more criminal, which is false. This is incredibly offensive. )

Please consider changing your signature. No one here endorses, encourages, or supports white nationalism.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
So if anyone wanted to know what justifies my signature ...
Your sig is offensive to me. While I agree with your assessment of Z's post, I do not agree with your assessment of the Watch. The Watch, like the US, is a place that fosters free expression and the exchange of ideas. It is not the expression of white nationalist propaganda specifically that is the purpose of the Watch, as your sig implies. Those of us who do not have sigs similar to yours should not be considered to be in support of that falsely implied purpose.

It would be wrong for the Watch to not allow the free expression of beliefs. If that time comes, I will change my sig to: I occasionally post things on KevinsWatch because I am a fan of Stephen R. Donaldson; this should not be considered as condonation of censorship for which this forum has become a platform. Or course, at that point, such a sig would not be allowed.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:
Black people have a different attitude towards the cops than white people, a "fuck the police" mentality that is reflected in their music, culture, etc. While it may seem surprising to us how often they resist arrest, it's not so surprising when you acknowledge the difference in their attitudes and culture.

There are a lot of differences between blacks and whites that I find outrageous, but my outrage doesn't make them untrue; differences in: murder rates, school drop out rates, deadbeat dad rates, single parent family rates, etc. It's easy to look at statistics like how often cops shoot one race vs another and point a finger at the politically correct "aggressor," but it takes a bit more fortitude to acknowledge the politically incorrect, unpopular statistics that paint a less favorable picture of the purported "victims."

If blacks weren't committing more crime, joining gangs, abandoning their kids, celebrating thug lifestyles, and resisting arrest, I bet we'd see the statistics for how they're treated by the cops match other races. It would be a nice experiment, wouldn't it? Maybe they should try it out. At the end of the day, if they were still treated the same, I'd freely admit I was wrong. But their lives would still be vastly improved.

So if anyone wanted to know what justifies my signature ...

( Why this post is not only wrong but misinformation: it stops at statistics, but does not explore the causes of the statistics, leaving it implied that black people are intrinsically more criminal, which is false. This is incredibly offensive. )
So my true statements are racist because I don't include the arguments you'd use to explain them away? Laughing

I didn't say or imply that black people are intrinsically more criminal. That's your caricature. I said they have a CULTURE of "fuck the police" and gaining street cred by being a criminal. This is true.

I know that you imagine some way to blame this on white people. Black behavior/culture/attitudes are white people's fault, right? Self-destructive behaviors can be dismissed if they are enacted by black people, because white supremacists made them do it . . . or something. But doesn't that explanation contain its own racist implication, namely, "white people are intrinsically racist?"

You have no real interest in causes/motivations. You are only interested in blaming/bashing whites and excusing blacks. Citing negative statistics about blacks: offensive. Saying negative things about whites: perfectly acceptable.

Fuck your offense. Fuck your racism charges. Tell me where my points are wrong, not the many ways you excuse and justify your hatred of me.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess to start your generalization is completely insane, I assume you haven't gotten to know many black people well. You're confusing race with class and lemme tell you the poor get fucked by the police, that's why they get street cred. Maybe you've never been poor or never had a lot of interactions with the police as poor?

Here's how I can blame white people for this: We bought human beings, brought them across the ocean, set up all the rules, set up the authority, built the schools and hired the cops. How could you not place the root of every societal problem on white men? Bro they have run the world forever. They control all the $$$ and the access and the networking necessary to rise in power.

Kind of person that resists arrest phew. man I have seen cops roll up on a group of people, grab one throw him in the back and drive away no words spoken.

Also the idea that there is nothing to blame from crime I assume you mean the kind of crime that cops go after because ffs there is so much rewarded crime everywhere. Do you need examples of crime paying off for the criminal? Really?

Whatever, person above nailed it when they said "That seems like a whole lotta words to basically assert that the outcomes of the System — the inscrutable ways of the Invisible Hand — are simply right and just by definition." the amount of backflips you have to do to get to blind obedience is breathtaking man you should join a circus or go to the olympics or something phew. The think tank has fallen far if this kind of trash is going on here. It must have been a slow boil.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fist and Faith wrote:
It is not the expression of white nationalist propaganda specifically that is the purpose of the Watch, as your sig implies.

That's not what it implies. Only the most malignly-intended interpretation would suggest that this is implied.

"Has become a platform" means that white nationalists frequently come here to promote their views. It doesn't mean that this is the purpose of the Watch, or that the operators of the Watch condone it. What it does mean is that white nationalists like to post here. (They like to post on Youtube, too; Youtube has become a platform.)

I don't condone their opinions. I feel like I need to say so, as I don't want to be guilty by association. This is a very small pool of posters, and it would be very easy to assume we're like-minded. (Not an issue for Youtube, which has billions of people posting.)

And there's nothing else implied.

Please consider changing your signature. No one here endorses, encourages, or supports white nationalism.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gadget nee Jemcheeta wrote:
I guess to start your generalization is completely insane, I assume you haven't gotten to know many black people well. You're confusing race with class and lemme tell you the poor get fucked by the police, that's why they get street cred. Maybe you've never been poor or never had a lot of interactions with the police as poor?

Here's how I can blame white people for this: We bought human beings, brought them across the ocean, set up all the rules, set up the authority, built the schools and hired the cops. How could you not place the root of every societal problem on white men? Bro they have run the world forever. They control all the $$$ and the access and the networking necessary to rise in power.

Kind of person that resists arrest phew. man I have seen cops roll up on a group of people, grab one throw him in the back and drive away no words spoken.

Also the idea that there is nothing to blame from crime I assume you mean the kind of crime that cops go after because ffs there is so much rewarded crime everywhere. Do you need examples of crime paying off for the criminal? Really?

Whatever, person above nailed it when they said "That seems like a whole lotta words to basically assert that the outcomes of the System — the inscrutable ways of the Invisible Hand — are simply right and just by definition." the amount of backflips you have to do to get to blind obedience is breathtaking man you should join a circus or go to the olympics or something phew. The think tank has fallen far if this kind of trash is going on here. It must have been a slow boil.


A good way to get deferential treatment from the cops as a white man is to wear a suit and tie and make friends with cops through fraternal organizations.

I literally got pulled over once for not having my headlights on, and all the cop did was politely show me how to turn it on for my car (I was driving my parents' car and was unfamiliar with it). They were super friendly to me. Then again, I am a white guy and was wearing a suit and tie. He was literally sticking his head through my window into the car, leaning over me (and exposing himself to possible attack). You see cops freak out when they see a black man at the wheel.

No warning. Nothing. Could be that the cop was just super friendly, but they tend to give warnings or tickets for that kind of thing.

I also know cops doing things that would get poor people tossed in jail (like bumming pills off people), but they look the other way for their own kind.

You also don't snitch out the cops.

I am not even wealthy or anything. I just know how to dress a certain way that projects a certain image, and other people treat me differently because of it. Now, swap the suit for a hoodie and watch how other people change their behavior.
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