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Covid-19 (Part 2)
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peter
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UK Opposition leader Sir Kier Stamer made an opportunistic grab for a bit of one upmanship yesterday by preemptively calling for what PM Johnson would have to do anyway (assuming the almost foregone given that his 'three tier system' will fail to stem the second wave Corona virus upsurge), the introduction of a two/three week circuit breaker lockdown without delay.

All well and good except that this - intended to be short term, but who can say - measure will be half-cocked at best given that it will not include the closing of schools, universities or places of work. In fact all that is proposed is the complete shutdown of the hospitality industry while every other conduit for virus transmission (but which earns the Government money) stays open. If by now it is not patently clear that only the nuclear option of total lockdown as per that instigated earlier in the year can actually work the oracle of reducing the r-rate such that infection increases are slowed and then reversed, then I must be in a minority of one to believe so. This virus is simply too adept at passing from individual to individual for any lesser kind of break to be effective - and unless we want to blitz our economy back into the middle ages this extreme form of lockdown is simply not an option.

Besides, it appears that the entire policy is flawed from the outset. The Telegraph reports today that yesterday the head of the UK vaccine taskforce said that any vaccine developed was only likely to be fifty percent effective "in line with other flu deterrents" (what the fuck does that last bit - in fact the whole statement - mean?), while health secretary Matt Hancock stuck his oar in by saying that the herd-immunity idea was a fallacy as there "can be no mass immunity even if everyone caught it." Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but does this not mean that only when the last person, with the last virus is either dead or isolated for the rest of their life, is the virus 'defeated' - which alongside the unlikely efficacy of any vaccine developed effectively negates the purpose of any avoiding action such as lockdowns in the first place! If you can't get immune to it, and you can't vaccinate against it, is not the only realistic option left to learn to treat and live with it? If these things are true, what exactly are we trying to do here? I'm confused.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mitch McConnell confronted over GOP FAILURE to pass COVID-19 stimulus. In response, McConnell responds with MOCKERY and LAUGHTER.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should have never needed any stimulus because we should never have shut down the economy in the first place. The economic lockdowns were politically-motivated to use as a weapon against Trump--the Democrats had been wishing for a recession since 2019; they got their wish.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't you think the Democrats would expect the people to blame the Democrats if the Democrats shut down the economy?

Your "plot" makes no sense. It's not even misinformation. It's the spittle that flies off when you cannot spew misinformation fast enough.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your statement is contradicted by your own party, Hashi. Senate Republicans, including the president, all said that more stimulus was needed. Their own words. Then they completely and utterly failed to pass such legislation.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Republicans are no longer Republicans, just money-wasting Democrats who happen to have a different letter affixed to their names.

wayfriend, that is how many of view you almost all the time. My statement is demonstrably not misinformation since many Democrats are on record from before corona stating that they would like for a recession to occur.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Republicans are no longer Republicans, just money-wasting Democrats who happen to have a different letter affixed to their names.

wayfriend, that is how many of view you almost all the time. My statement is demonstrably not misinformation since many Democrats are on record from before corona stating that they would like for a recession to occur.


I thought you were opposed to the term "RINO" (Republican In Name Only), Hashi. You have previously posted that you hated the term and wanted people to stop using it.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still dislike the term, but if they want to engage in infighting and abandon their principles then my opinion does not matter.

I cannot wait until after this election so I can quit the GOP and officially rejoin Libertarians. It isn't Trump, it is now most of them.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I guess we can both agree that the GOP is a shitshow.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Democrats aren't much better--it was only 3 months ago when some of them were threatening to split the party if Sanders did not get nominated.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you sum up the Libertarian stance in three or four bullet points so I can get a picture of what it is they stand for Hashi?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And as we have seen that was an empty threat.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
And as we have seen that was an empty threat.


Largely, but there's still a small contingent of "Bernie or Bust" type people who think that voting for Donald Trump in 2020 so that "America can become a fascist dictatorship," "so that the environment experiences a rapid decline due to Trump/GOP policies, etc." can lead to a large number of people becoming so desperate that they vote for socialism.

Those people are nuts.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

100% nuts 🤦‍♀️
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter wrote:
Can you sum up the Libertarian stance in three or four bullet points so I can get a picture of what it is they stand for Hashi?


Personal and economic freedom of choice
---abortion is a personal choice issue so the government at State and Federal levels should neither support (stop funding Planned Parenthood) nor prevent abortion
--decriminalize drugs...but employers are free to fire an employee for using and if you drive while using you lose your license
---decriminalize prostitution because it is an economic transaction between adults...but keep cracking down on human trafficking
---end proprrty taxes--an older couple with no kids in school still pay school taxes and you can lose your house over non-payment (in one recent example a county put a house up for auction over an $8 balance)
--end civil asset forfeiture and no-knock warramts

The list goes on. Check out lp.org/platform

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If you can't handle losing then you don't deserve to win.

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Hashi, if you thought you were wrong at times, evidently you were mistaken.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems reasonable till these noble principles are applied indiscriminately imv.

I personally have little issue with these objectives though some nuancing is needed.

So from a libertarian perspective economic transactions never require regulation?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Hashi - interesting. Seems pretty much to be what it says on the tin. Maximum liberty of individual choice; minimal nannying or state intervention in areas pertaining to individual freedom.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In an inspired bit of monkey business, it appears that Russian disinformation artists have been spreading the idea that the Oxford University/Astra Zenica produced Covid vaccine cases regression of recipients back into a 'chimpanzee' like state (given the condition of most people I serve across the counter of the shop each night, how would they know?), wiping away two million years (?) worth of evolution overnight. As leading competitors to their own home produced vaccine, it seems that the devious Ruskies will stoop to any level to gain the competitive edge over their rivals. It assumes an almost already knuckle dragging intellect on the part of our populace to think that they would be taken in by this hogwash in sufficient numbers to effect the products uptake.........

......????........but then again - we did vote for Brexit!

Wink


More seriously, it seems that a further victim of the virus might be Government unity in the UK, with reports emerging of deep divisions between various members on the appropriate way in which to tackle the virus. Chancellor Sunak is by all accounts coming under strong pressure to up his financial support for the beleaguered North, while he himself has grave reservations about Number 10's placing primacy of the control aspects of the pandemic above the economic considerations thereof. Health Secretary Matt Hancock is apparently a laughing stock amongst all other Ministers with his continued belief that a vaccine will be found in short order to combat the pandemic. All others have apparently given up the hope of this as a forlorn one - perhaps Hancock has had a dose of that monkey vaccine mentioned above and knows different. Yet other Ministers believe that we should be adopting the circuit breaker tactics beloved of Sir Kier Stamer and the Government Scientific advisors themselves, but to which Johnson and Number 10 themselves seem reluctant to pursue.

Meanwhile, the political crisis developing between the Government and the North, exemplified best by the mayor of Greater Manchester refusing to allow his conurbation to be placed into the 'tier three' category (where the most stringent restrictions would apply) unless the financial reparations package is substantially improved, threatens to turn ugly. Home Secretary Priti Patel in telephone conversation with the Chief of Police for the Manchester area was informed that it was doubtful that the police would have the resources to enforce a Government imposed elevation of restrictions - that is not to mention that the Manchester Police take their authority from the Mayor rather than central government, and are answerable to him. As such there is some doubt as to whether they would be prepared to enforce a policy that was not agreed to by their own boss as it were. Talks will continue on Monday to try to resolve this crisis, which is just one of many that the Government currently face - but all in all this has the look of an administration beginning to unravel in the face of insurmountable difficulties.
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'Then let it end.'

We are the Bloodguard
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris Christie is now saying he "was wrong to not wear a mask" after his bout with COVID, which put him in the ICU for several days.

He also said, "I thought I was entering a safe zone [with the Rose Garden event]. I was wrong."

It seems that Trump's campaign adviser is being very low-key critical of Trump's (and by extension, the GOP's) cavalier attitude with COVID-19.

He urges people to take it seriously and wear a mask.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyweir wrote:
Seems reasonable till these noble principles are applied indiscriminately imv.

I personally have little issue with these objectives though some nuancing is needed.

So from a libertarian perspective economic transactions never require regulation?


That depends upon how strictly one wishes to adhere to textbook principles as opposed to operating in the real world. Of course, we will pick up that discussion in the appropriate thread...as soon as I figure out which one would be "appropriate".......

*************

After Kamala Harris ridiculued Trump for not taking the virus seriously enough, even suggesting that people in his Administration and Campaign deserved to catch it because of his choices, it has been revealed that people in her campaign have tested positive. In the interest of equity, applying her logical equally, it is clear that neither she nor her campaign treated the virus seriously enough and that explains why they contracted it.

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