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President Trump (Part 2)
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Trump's comments send a signal to his supporters about how to react if Biden prevails

President Donald Trump's refusal on Wednesday to guarantee a peaceful transfer of power if he loses to Joe Biden in November is leading America towards a dark place during a year of incendiary political tensions.

Trump's intransigence, included in his latest assault on perfectly legitimate mail-in ballots on Wednesday, posed a grave threat to the democratic continuum that has underpinned nearly 250 years of republican government.

[...] The President's comments risked not only dealing another blow to an election in which he has been trailing and has incessantly tarnished, but could send a signal to his supporters about how to react if the Democratic nominee prevails in 41 days.



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Trump does not condone violence. He calls for law and order. He condemns violence.

Democrats stand by while rilters burn, loot, assault, murder.

But by wayfriend's superior logic that means Trump is calling for... something? I don't see exactly what.

But the rioters are peaceful.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend's unattributed propaganda piece wrote:

President Donald Trump's refusal on Wednesday (Sept 23rd, 2020) to guarantee a peaceful transfer of power if he loses to Joe Biden in November is leading America towards a dark place during a year of incendiary political tensions.


...

NBC, Aug 26th, 2020 wrote:
Hillary Clinton says Biden should not concede the election 'under any circumstances'

WASHINGTON - Hillary Clinton said in a new interview that Joe Biden should not concede the 2020 presidential election "under any circumstances," anticipating issues that could prolong knowing the final outcome.

"Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch, and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is," Clinton said in an interview with her former communications director Jennifer Palmieri for Showtime's "The Circus," which released a clip Tuesday.

Link



Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because everything Democrats do is good. Only Democrats can manage to peacefully riot.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TF, if Trump is vowing to contest all election results regardless of any merit in doing so, then Biden should defend those contests just as hard. That is prudent, not violent. The alternative is that Trump wins, not because he is elected, but because no one stood up.

Failing to immediately concede is not the same as refusal to peacefully vacate.

But the true horror of your comment is the way you conflate the two as if they are the same thing. What you are actually doing is saying that Biden is just as bad as Trump, which is false. Worse, you are implying that Biden is advocating for violence, which feeds into the myth that @#$% such as sarge promulgate, which helps Trump justify his false narratives which he is using to corrupt the election.

Why do people WANT to destroy the American Democracy?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WF - your side lies so easily. Trump makes remarks this Past weekend, Hilary states this a month ago...

https://youtu.be/44AbGEHhzg4
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:
TF, if Trump is vowing to contest all election results regardless of any merit in doing so, then Biden should defend those contests just as hard. That is prudent, not violent. The alternative is that Trump wins, not because he is elected, but because no one stood up.

Failing to immediately concede is not the same as refusal to peacefully vacate.
I don't disagree with that at all, providing the same standards and expectations are applied to both parties.

wayfriend wrote:
But the true horror of your comment is the way you conflate the two as if they are the same thing. What you are actually doing is saying that Biden is just as bad as Trump, which is false. Worse, you are implying that Biden is advocating for violence, which feeds into the myth that @#$% such as sarge promulgate, which helps Trump justify his false narratives which he is using to corrupt the election.
Jesus...

My comment that Biden is "just as bad as Trump" is my value judgement, ergo it's not a matter of fact or falsehood. It's my opinion.. evidence-based, but nonetheless, still only my opinion.

Plus, you've not even accurately paraphrased it either, because my core point is that underneath the masks being worn for the electorate's benefit (and more successfully by the Dems, but solely because Trump is such a crushing idiot that he is too thick to manage any sort of dissimulation at all), the true nature, tactics and especially motivations of both PARTIES are pretty much exactly the same. I couldn't give a crap about the figureheads - it's the Pub and Dem High Commands that are of significance in my book.

And then you leap in again with accusations of what I am "implying" and the melodramatic "true horror" of my post... Rolling Eyes . Here's a wild idea... why don't you stick to what I post and have actually said, rather than putting your own skewed spin on things and "finding" implications (no doubt much like McCarthy "found" communists wherever he looked)?

I've not once claimed or even implied that Biden is advocating for violence. Nor have I once claimed or even implied that Trump is advocating for violence. I'm simply noting the extreme similarity within both parties' pre-stated intentions not to concede or potentially even accept (initially at least) the result of the November election.

The only claim of incitement to violence comes from you and your partisan and unattributed quoted op-ed piece above (which of course slings mud in Trump's direction). And what it gives us is interpretative supposition and opinion, not fact in the least. That's blatantly obvious from the language chosen...

Snippets from wf's quoted propaganda piece wrote:

...leading America towards a dark place during a year of incendiary political tensions.

...Trump's intransigence, included in his latest assault on perfectly legitimate mail-in ballots on Wednesday, posed a grave threat to the democratic continuum...

...The President's comments risked not only dealing another blow to an election in which he has been trailing and has incessantly tarnished, but could send a signal to his supporters about how to react...

I mean seriously? Emotive/pejorative much? People are meant to take that as a dispassionate, unbiassed and objective recital of facts? You think the author might have applied just a teeny bit of prejudgement there?

Therefore I don't find its conclusions or claims credible, hence I don't allow for its hypothesis whatsoever in my comparison of Trump and Biden/Pubs and Dems and their possible reactions to a November loss. So you can rein in your sense of "true horror"... Rolling Eyes

By all means disagree with me, but if you are going to react, for the love of God, read what I say and limit yourself to that, rather than misinterpreting along party lines. I'm getting a bit bored of endlessly having to quote myself to point out where you've wittingly or unwittingly spun my words into meanings and "implications" that I've not once said, owing to the distortative lens you seem to view everything through.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayfriend wrote:

Why do people WANT to destroy the American Democracy?


I have been asking that about Democrats for years now. To date, I have found no answer other than "Democrats hate liberty".
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Democrats believe they are smarter and better than everyone else. Therefore we can't be trusted to think for ourselves. The believed it about blacks and Indians. They believe we deplorables need to have decisions made for us
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Republican leaders have a moral obligation to hold Trump accountable for irresponsible, authoritarian comments regarding his refusal to a peaceful transition of power.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel moved to say that I am getting pretty tired of the habit of a few Tank contributors who hail from Texas to use the word "Democrat" as an overarching pejorative.

Y'all know who you are.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ur-Nanothnir wrote:
Republican leaders have a moral obligation to hold Trump accountable for irresponsible, authoritarian comments regarding his refusal to a peaceful transition of power.


and Democrats have a moral imperative to tell leftists to stop rioting. And Democrats have a moral imperative to stop trying to cheat the election.

And while you are at it apologize for slavery and Jackson's Indian massacres. And the KKK.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Democratic politicians, including Joe Biden himself, have repeatedly told people to stop rioting, saying that violence is wrong even in response to violence. Repeatedly. Multiple times. Period. End of story.

Democrats aren't trying to cheat the election, that is just a far-right conspiracy theory regarding mail-in ballots. You apparently believe it, and it's your choice to continue to believe something despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary.

Democrats don't have to apologize for shit. The modern Democratic Party is nothing like it was 150 years ago. The Democratic Southern states "apologized" for slavery via Reconstruction.

Democrats consistently work to better the lives of racial minorities. I don't see that coming from the GOP, who have a madman as a president who says that Mexicans are rapists and says xenophobic and racist things all the time. Too numerous to even recount all the times he does it. Clear public record, yet Republicans continue to enthusiastically cheer him on even as he sets up a dictatorship in America.

And you continue to cheer as unarmed black people get murdered by cops.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ur - Biden waited months to say anything. And the left has been calling for violence / assassination of Trump since before he was elected.

The calls for violence against Trump
https://youtu.be/qj7CeY1c9uA

More calls to violence by Democrats
https://youtu.be/nw9kyYEwg2A

The "peaceful" riots"
https://youtu.be/DxZVfwudvC8

CNN mocking conservatives
https://youtu.be/NwOPNncxxNA

Lemon finally tells Biden riots are bad
https://youtu.be/kp7oPgIwpZ8
Admits polling is the reason why

Biden finally condemns riots, blames Trump
For the left who are rioting
https://youtu.be/HjnLJU0j5rA
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ur - getting extensions for vote counting doesn't lead to fraud? Didn't North Carolina just redo an election because of fraud?
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/north-carolina-ninth-district-fraud-mccready-bishop/597412/

More election fraud

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/docs/pacei-voterfraudcases.pdf

I've already ticked of the racial lies from the media in another thread in answer to Sky. If you need me to find it I can.

I'm not cheering anyone dying. I'm simply pointing out the lies of blm ,the media and the democrats. Police are not hunting down black men and women. Sometimes people make bad choices. Like getting involved with drug dealers.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ur-Nanothnir wrote:
Democrats consistently work to better the lives of racial minorities.


Is that why they want to keep minorities in permanent poverty by giving them free money and government benefits without having to lift a finger for it? No one in the history of the world escapted poverty via government programs.

Is that why they never address black-on-black crime in cities such as Chicago, Detroit, and Baltimore?

Is that why Californians are fleeing the "paradise" they helped created and said they wanted? The number one reason they move to Texas is "lower taxes"--the taxes they said they wanted. *shrug*


Savor Dam wrote:
Y'all know who you are.


Yes, and I will continue to maintain my opinions until Democrats change their ways. In other words, and I am paraphrasing here, "if Democrats will stop telling lies about Republicans then Republicans will stop telling the truth about Democrats".

Also, if you want to piss off a Republican then tell them a lie but if you want to piss off a Democrat then tell them the truth.

As I have noted, though, Biden will probably win in November and the Democrats will retain the House, so they should be able to enact law enforcement reform, immigration reform, and so on....but I suspect they won't.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Report: Trump Campaign Actively Discussing Radical Measures To Bypass Election Results

A jarring new report from The Atlantic claims that the Trump campaign is discussing potential strategies to circumvent the results of the 2020 election, should Joe Biden defeat Donald Trump, by first alleging the existence of rampant fraud and then asking legislators in battleground states where the Republicans have a legislative majority to bypass the state's popular vote and instead to choose electors loyal to the GOP and the sitting president.

[...] The Atlantic report claims that sources in the Republican Party at the local and national levels confirm that "the Trump campaign is discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors" in red battleground states.

"The push to appoint electors would be framed in terms of protecting the people's will," an unnamed Trump-campaign legal adviser tells The Atlantic, adding, "The state legislatures will say, 'All right, we've been given this constitutional power. We don't think the results of our own state are accurate, so here's our slate of electors that we think properly reflect the results of our state.'"

The chairman of the Pennsylvania Republican Party says, on the record, that he has discussed appointing loyal electors with the Trump campaign: "It is one of the available legal options set forth in the Constitution."

A critical factor in the Trump campaign's approach is delegitimizing mail-in and provisional ballots and any other votes that are not counted by the end of Election Day, November 3, as those other votes are expected to heavily favor Biden. Earlier this summer, Trump tweeted, "MAIL-IN VOTING WILL LEAD TO MASSIVE FRAUD AND ABUSE. IT WILL ALSO LEAD TO THE END OF OUR GREAT REPUBLICAN PARTY. WE CAN NEVER LET THIS TRAGEDY BEFALL OUR NATION." Later, in a Twitter post in July, Trump wrote, "With Universal Mail-In Voting, 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history." However, due to the coronavirus pandemic, 2020 will feature more voting by mail than any other election in history.

[...] An investigation by Justin Levitt at Loyola Law School uncovered a total of 31 credible allegations of voter impersonation out of more than 1 billion votes cast in the United States from 2000 to 2014. [link]

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ur-Nanothnir wrote:
And you continue to cheer as unarmed black people get murdered by cops.
Oh fercrissakes come on now...

Is anyone here "continuing to cheer as unarmed black people get murdered by cops"? And forget "continuing"... has anyone here ever once "cheered as unarmed black people get murdered by cops."?

No? Of course not. That's just deliberately provocative, utterly false and hyperbolically emotional bullshit demagoguery, with absolutely no relationship with the truth whatsoever. Yet again we have blatant hyperpartisan distortion being applied - and to the max on this particular occasion.

Nano...

I largely enjoy reading your posts, because you've got the ability to expound your particular views clearly and rationally and thus they're both illuminating and thought-provoking.

However, then you go and post frankly lunatic emotive bollocks like the quote above - and all that does is cause your credibility to plummet, because it's such blatant bollocks.

Which is a shame because often you've got something worthwhile to say.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WF - we are already seeing mail-in fraud.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/24/916633925/feds-in-unusual-statement-announce-theyre-investigating-discarded-pa-ballots

So what aren't they catching?

Trump is right again.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

9 ballots. Even the article you posted says that it was inadvertant. No one was charged - by your own definition which you use repeatedly, this means no crime.

Doesn't meet the definition of either "widespread" nor "fraud".

What it does demonstrate is the Trump administration using any pretense to "prove" widespread voter fraud.

Which is the point of what I posted. So thank you.
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