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Bahgoon_The_Unbearabl Servant of the Land
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:22 am Post subject: anyone remember the griffin? |
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At the battle of Soaring Woodhelivin, there was a griffin, do you remember?
If not mistaken, wasn't that the first and last flying beast in the Chronicles? |
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Wosbald A Brainwashed Religious Flunkie

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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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+JMJ+
1) Yes.
2) Unless a free-floating, full-torso, vaporous apparition counts, then "yes". _________________
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wayfriend whilom witling

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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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There's one thread about griffins here. Including Donaldson's comments on the subject.
Why were the griffin absent in TPTP?.
This should probably have been posted in the First and Second Chronicles forum.
(This is help, not criticism.) _________________ * I occasionally post things on KevinsWatch because I am a fan of Stephen R. Donaldson; this should not be considered as condonation of the white nationalist propaganda which is posted far too frequently on this website. |
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Lazy Luke License to Copycat
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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High Lord Kevin Landwaster gave the First Ward to the Giants.
Didn't he give the Seventh Ward to the Bloodguard!
The Elohim were also given a Ward, Weird or Wyrd.
The Griffin was likely Drool Rockworm and Lord Foul's plan to stop the Defender's finding a Ward, ie the destruction of Soaring Woodhelven.
The Second Ward might have been given to the Ramen before thier expulsion from the Land, and hidden in the Catacombs by brave Kelenbrahbanal. |
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Fist and Faith Magister Vitae

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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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No, Kevin did not give wards to either the Bloodguard or Elohim. And the 7th was . _________________ We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon |
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Lazy Luke License to Copycat
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Savor Dam Will Be Herd!

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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Spoiler: That is covered in The Illearth War. |
Nor do I believe Kelenbrahbanal was involved in the presence of the Second Ward in the Mount Thunder catacombs. Nowhere do we see the Ranyhyn venturing into subterranean spaces. _________________ Love prevails.
~ Tracie Mckinney-Hammon
Have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and to try to love the questions themselves as if they were locked rooms or books written in a very foreign language. Don't search for the answers, which could not be given to you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer.
~ Rainier Maria Rilke |
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Lazy Luke License to Copycat
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:29 am Post subject: |
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That's because you lack insight, SD.
Savor Dam wrote: | Nor do I believe Kelenbrahbanal was involved in the presence of the Second Ward in the Mount Thunder catacombs. Nowhere do we see the Ranyhyn venturing into subterranean spaces. |
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Fist and Faith Magister Vitae

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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Spoiler: Kelenbhrabanal (note the spelling), died before there were Ramen. The Ramen fought alongside Kevin. When he knew he couldn't win, Kevin came up with the whole plan of the Wards. So Kelenbhrabanal was dead before there were Wards. |
_________________ We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon |
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Lazy Luke License to Copycat
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Bahgoon_The_Unbearabl wrote: | At the battle of Soaring Woodhelivin, there was a griffin, do you remember?
If not mistaken, wasn't that the first and last flying beast in the Chronicles? |
Hello Bahgoon_The_Unbearabl, and a warm welcome to Kevinswatch.
Sorry for the argy-bargy, sometimes it can be like pulling teeth around here.
Anyway, do you remember the giraffe given to Thomas Covenant outside Revelstone at the dawn of the quest for the Staff of Law? It too had wings.
Which demonstrates that Stephen Donaldson has a keen sense of humour. |
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Avatar Immanentizing The Eschaton

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Lazy Luke License to Copycat
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Bahgoon_The_Unbearabl wrote: | At the battle of Soaring Woodhelivin, there was a griffin, do you remember?
If not mistaken, wasn't that the first and last flying beast in the Chronicles? |
In some far flung way I think of Thomas Covenant's mustang, Dura Fairflank, as having the capacity for flight ...
... something to do with 'the Legend of Berek Halfhand' (the arris tapestry), Douglas Fairbanks' 1924 film The Thief of Baghdad, (magic carpet), and the fact that 'The Land' happens to be a place of high fantasy. |
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Cord Hurn Servant Of The Band

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Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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I've always assumed the last griffins were destroyed by Carroil Wildwood's power when Jehannum Fleshharrower's army went into Garroting Deep. After that time, we never hear of them. |
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wayfriend whilom witling

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Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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I think that this may have more to do with Donaldson's regret than any in-story reason.
In the Gradual Interview was wrote: | The *real* reason that Lord Foul doesn't develop griffins as an air force is that I was ashamed of having intruded one into the story in the first place. *That,* I believed then, and still believe, was a failure of imagination. I should have invented a creature instead of borrowing one from standard mythology. Well, I didn't have any better ideas at the time. But the griffin's presence always bothered me, so I avoided relying on it later in the story.
(10/13/2010) |
_________________ * I occasionally post things on KevinsWatch because I am a fan of Stephen R. Donaldson; this should not be considered as condonation of the white nationalist propaganda which is posted far too frequently on this website. |
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Avatar Immanentizing The Eschaton

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Cord Hurn Servant Of The Band

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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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wayfriend wrote: | I think that this may have more to do with Donaldson's regret than any in-story reason.
In the Gradual Interview was wrote: | The *real* reason that Lord Foul doesn't develop griffins as an air force is that I was ashamed of having intruded one into the story in the first place. *That,* I believed then, and still believe, was a failure of imagination. I should have invented a creature instead of borrowing one from standard mythology. Well, I didn't have any better ideas at the time. But the griffin's presence always bothered me, so I avoided relying on it later in the story.
(10/13/2010) |
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Well, of course, the author's decision is always the real reason, but that makes a loyal reader want to come up with an in-story reason for why the griffins disappeared, to preserve consistency. And having an explanation that Caerroil Wildwood destroyed the last of the griffins works just fine for that purpose. |
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Avatar Immanentizing The Eschaton

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wayfriend whilom witling

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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed.
I think it's a bit unclear exactly why Donaldson felt that Griffons did not "fit". We only knew it had something to do with the fact that they were borrowed from other mythology.
One can immediately write this off as a sort of authorial pride. He wanted to be more inventive and not really on what was previously invented. At one point, he calls griffins "a failure of imagination".
But I think it's a mistake to think it's that. Or only that.
Because in the first Chronicles, Donaldson was carefully managing that thin, blurred line between dream and real. Everything that came from our mundane world into the Land was highly scrutinized by Donaldson so as to maintain the balance he desired. Especially Hile Troy.
So, as I see it, Donaldson's concern may have been more about whether or not griffins provided evidence that the Land really was a dream. Or was not really a dream.
At another point, he calls griffins "a tactical error". I think the general nature of this tactical error is in weakening the dream/real paradox, at least in his view. _________________ * I occasionally post things on KevinsWatch because I am a fan of Stephen R. Donaldson; this should not be considered as condonation of the white nationalist propaganda which is posted far too frequently on this website. |
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Menolly Blek Lives Metter

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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Hey guys.
As mod of The Summonsing, I have a quick off topic but on point question. i.e., should I move this thread to The First and Second Chrons forum?
As I have stated previously, I have no problem with off topic discussion here; I've veered off topic many times myself. And, IMO it's nice to have a topic like this here in The Summonsing; I feel it's kind of an intro to n00bs as to the type of discussion which goes on in other areas of the Watch.
However...
I also believe that many Donaldson oriented users may not visit The Summonsing. As such, perhaps being in this forum may be limiting other responses to the topic.
What say y'all? _________________
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Cord Hurn Servant Of The Band

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