anyone remember the griffin?

Bahgoon_The_Unbearabl · Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:22 am Post subject: anyone remember the griffin?

At the battle of Soaring Woodhelivin, there was a griffin, do you remember?

If not mistaken, wasn't that the first and last flying beast in the Chronicles?

Wosbald · Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:49 pm Post subject:

+JMJ+

1) Yes.

2) Unless a free-floating, full-torso, vaporous apparition counts, then "yes".
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wayfriend · Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:21 pm Post subject:

There's one thread about griffins here. Including Donaldson's comments on the subject.

Why were the griffin absent in TPTP?.

This should probably have been posted in the First and Second Chronicles forum.

(This is help, not criticism.)
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* I occasionally post things on KevinsWatch because I am a fan of Stephen R. Donaldson; this should not be considered as condonation of the white nationalist propaganda which is posted far too frequently on this website.

Lazy Luke · Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:20 pm Post subject:

High Lord Kevin Landwaster gave the First Ward to the Giants.
Didn't he give the Seventh Ward to the Bloodguard!
The Elohim were also given a Ward, Weird or Wyrd.

The Griffin was likely Drool Rockworm and Lord Foul's plan to stop the Defender's finding a Ward, ie the destruction of Soaring Woodhelven.

The Second Ward might have been given to the Ramen before thier expulsion from the Land, and hidden in the Catacombs by brave Kelenbrahbanal.

Fist and Faith · Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:43 pm Post subject:

No, Kevin did not give wards to either the Bloodguard or Elohim. And the 7th was Spoiler:

Amok

.
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All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
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Lazy Luke · Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:44 pm Post subject:

Spoiler:

How so?

Savor Dam · Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:14 am Post subject:

Spoiler:

That is covered in The Illearth War.

Nor do I believe Kelenbrahbanal was involved in the presence of the Second Ward in the Mount Thunder catacombs. Nowhere do we see the Ranyhyn venturing into subterranean spaces.
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Have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and to try to love the questions themselves as if they were locked rooms or books written in a very foreign language. Don't search for the answers, which could not be given to you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer.
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Lazy Luke · Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:29 am Post subject:

That's because you lack insight, SD.

Fist and Faith · Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:23 pm Post subject:

Spoiler:

Kelenbhrabanal (note the spelling), died before there were Ramen. The Ramen fought alongside Kevin. When he knew he couldn't win, Kevin came up with the whole plan of the Wards. So Kelenbhrabanal was dead before there were Wards.

_________________
We are not required to save the world. We are required to stand up as truly as we can for what we love. -SRD

All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon

Lazy Luke · Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:28 pm Post subject:

Avatar · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:56 am Post subject:

I lose track of whether y'all are being funny or not...

Anyway, Lord Foul's army in TIW had griffins with it when it marched on the Lords.

--A
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Lazy Luke · Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:00 pm Post subject:

Cord Hurn · Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:15 pm Post subject:

I've always assumed the last griffins were destroyed by Carroil Wildwood's power when Jehannum Fleshharrower's army went into Garroting Deep. After that time, we never hear of them.

wayfriend · Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:50 pm Post subject:

I think that this may have more to do with Donaldson's regret than any in-story reason.

Avatar · Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:20 pm Post subject:

Hahaha, when the mechanics are revealed... Very Happy

--A
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It's easy to judge. It's more difficult to understand.

Cord Hurn · Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:24 pm Post subject:

Avatar · Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:36 am Post subject:

Sure, but it's the reasoning behind the author's decision I think tht makes it interesting. Very Happy

--A
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It's easy to judge. It's more difficult to understand.

wayfriend · Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:20 pm Post subject:

Agreed.

I think it's a bit unclear exactly why Donaldson felt that Griffons did not "fit". We only knew it had something to do with the fact that they were borrowed from other mythology.

One can immediately write this off as a sort of authorial pride. He wanted to be more inventive and not really on what was previously invented. At one point, he calls griffins "a failure of imagination".

But I think it's a mistake to think it's that. Or only that.

Because in the first Chronicles, Donaldson was carefully managing that thin, blurred line between dream and real. Everything that came from our mundane world into the Land was highly scrutinized by Donaldson so as to maintain the balance he desired. Especially Hile Troy.

So, as I see it, Donaldson's concern may have been more about whether or not griffins provided evidence that the Land really was a dream. Or was not really a dream.

At another point, he calls griffins "a tactical error". I think the general nature of this tactical error is in weakening the dream/real paradox, at least in his view.
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* I occasionally post things on KevinsWatch because I am a fan of Stephen R. Donaldson; this should not be considered as condonation of the white nationalist propaganda which is posted far too frequently on this website.

Menolly · Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:10 pm Post subject:

Hey guys.

As mod of The Summonsing, I have a quick off topic but on point question. i.e., should I move this thread to The First and Second Chrons forum?

As I have stated previously, I have no problem with off topic discussion here; I've veered off topic many times myself. And, IMO it's nice to have a topic like this here in The Summonsing; I feel it's kind of an intro to n00bs as to the type of discussion which goes on in other areas of the Watch.

However...

I also believe that many Donaldson oriented users may not visit The Summonsing. As such, perhaps being in this forum may be limiting other responses to the topic.

What say y'all?
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Cord Hurn · Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:26 pm Post subject:

Yeah, Menolly, I guess it shouid probably be moved to that forum.
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