Israeli politics

[[Syl]]

[url=en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likud]Likud[/url] seems to have [url=news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4282234.stm]cut off its nose to spite its face[/url].

[Cail]

Yeowch! Why the Hell would they do that?
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"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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[[Syl]]

I guess that's the problem with uniting different parties to gain power. Eventually, you're going to have internal disagreement, and in this case, it might have disabled the whole party.
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"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner

[Cail]

Yeah, I guess. Still, it's one of those things that's never a good idea (cutting your man's mic cord).
_________________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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[Menolly]

:::shaking head:::

Isreali politics is beyond me.
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[sgt.null]

Likud has in fact silenced themselves. the NeoCons should heed this. debate is only good. if the other party/parts of your party don't have good points, put that out there. and if they have good points, address them.
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life's not a paragraph
And death i think is no parenthesis”
― E.E. Cummings

[Lord Mhoram]

Israeli politics are very complex.

I've always been intrigued by this sort of inter-party alliances etc. that I'll probably never see in American politics because of the two-party system. That's one of the reasons international politics interest me a lot.

[Alynna Lis Eachann]

I heard on NPR that Sharon would possibly be starting a centrist party that would draw people from both sides and (ideally, I suppose) weaken both the right and the left. And really, with friends like that, who needs enemies, right? I suppose it will all depend on who wins.

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4864033 (Click "Listen" and select your file type)
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[Brinn]

Looks like Hamas was so happy to have Israel withdraw from Gaza they launched dozens of rocket attack into Israel. <shakes head>

At what point will the international community realize that there is only one side in the conflict that wants mutual peace.
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War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill

[[Syl]]

Very true, Brinn.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

What else is there to say?
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"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner

[onewyteduck]

[MsMary]

I don't know, the Likud thing seems like typical political antics to me. Politcians in Israel are an unruly bunch.
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THOOLAH member since 2005

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[sgt.null]

when will the USA stop demanding that the tracts of the road to peace be greased with Jewish blood?
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life's not a paragraph
And death i think is no parenthesis”
― E.E. Cummings

[Avatar]

I don't think that they'll ever manage to destroy Israel, but I do think that Brinn makes a good point too.

--A
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It's easy to judge. It's more difficult to understand.

[Plissken]

[sgt.null]

how many times has the US criticized Israel for protecting itself? when they blew up reactors did the US side with them or sign onto the UN resolution? did the US call for borders based on nice numbers and not on the reality of the Palestinian Liberation Org? have we not been calling for some insane peace process when it states in the PLO charter that Israel needs to be destroyed? have we not put oil interests before the interest of the only Middle Eastern democracy? that's what it means.
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life's not a paragraph
And death i think is no parenthesis”
― E.E. Cummings

[Plissken]

Does Israel have a majority population that is not allowed to vote? Does Israel fire rockets into apartment buildings to retaliate against suicide bombers? Has not the US vetoed every UN resolution on Human Rights that would've affected Israel? Is the PLO in charge of anything, really? How much semetic blood did Israel "spend" in order to make iullegal and unsanctioned land grabs since the beginning of their country? How much has the US unquestioning support of Israeli policies cost them on the world arena?
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"If you're going to tell people the truth, you'd better make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you." - George Bernard Shaw

[MsMary]

[sgt.null]

Plissken: what land grabs? you mean the territories aquirred when attacked by various Muslim states? if the Muslim countries in question cared so much for the Palestinians, why not give them land? why not negotiate for such, as when Egypt settled with Israel? and who should the US be supporting, the democracy or the theocracies? or should we let the PLO wipe the earth clean of Jews as is their stated goal? i don't believe that Israel put genocide of the Palestinians in their charter, did they? and Israel has not kept up a decades long reign of terror. not too many Jews flying planes into buildings, blowing up buses and discos by suicide bomber. was that Israel slaughtering athletes at the Olympic games? was Israel hijacking Muslim planes or boats, and shooting hostages?

i'm sorry Plissken, i forgot the question...
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life's not a paragraph
And death i think is no parenthesis”
― E.E. Cummings

[Avatar]

All the questions are confusing me, to be honest.

Israel withdraws from Gaza, right?
Hamas attacks Israel from Gaza right?
Israel retaliates, as promised, right?

All looking good so far.
Then:

After retaliation, Hamas declares cease-fire, promises no more attacks.
Israel continues to strike Gaza, claiming that despite cease-fire, Hamas was still secretly inciting attacks[/i]
Hamas kills Israeli in retaliation.

What's with that? Despite their beliefs/assumptions/fears/(knowledge?), of Hamas' activities, continuing strikes after the cease-fire cost them a moral highground, I think. On the whole, I've always had a fair amount of respect for Israel as a nation, but I think this was a mistake.

Even if, as I wondered, they did pull out of Gaza to give them a justification when the attacks didn't end, (as they must have suspected), it remained acceptable to retaliate, even massively to continuing attacks.

To maintain that though, the cease-fire should have stopped the attacks as well. The instant the cease-fire failed, (as it would if those fears are true), start retaliating again. Now though, they look agressive and unreasonable.

Just thoughts...Syl? I know you pretty much keep up with all this. What's your thoughts?

--A
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It's easy to judge. It's more difficult to understand.